Have you sat in a Mustang, M2 or CJ3+?

I sat in those 3 and they are comfortable and easy to get in. Im 6' 2".




Have you sat in a Mustang, M2 or CJ3+?

I've flown a Mustang once, and loved it. Cockpit access is great, and I loved the 3point inertia reel car-style pilot seatbelt. I did say "most turbines"! TBMs are reasonable too.
I've sat in the co-pilot seat of a Cessna demo M2. I struggled to get in and out, but even worse, I couldn't fly it. The angled base of the panel was digging into my knees at full seat travel (I understand their are options for greater seat travel). Oddly, I don't remember much trouble getting into a CJ though.
PC12 was a misery. I literally couldn't figure how to get out of the pilot seat without my shoe hitting avionics or switches - it was a sort of human puzzle that took some figuring out.
Our C90 has a narrow pedestal. I hate the double width pedestal on later KAs.

I am 6'4" but I've flown most of the common piston types with no problem. My reaction to the SF50 was getting into the cockpit at an Exhibition after sitting in the M2, PC12 and King Air 250. The SF50 cabin is nice and modern in a way that some $m turbines aren't.

I also have a thing that I rarely buckle myself into the pilots seat without forgetting something and having to go back...

That right there is why I will never get a plane with only one door that is not the pilots door.

Tim

That is very limiting if you want to get into a pressurized aircraft.

That is very limiting if you want to get into a pressurized aircraft.

Cirrus released a new flight profile, starting at airport elevation of 2000 ft, ISA+10, cruising at 17,000 ft, starting weight 5000 lbs (~1000 lbs under gross).

Ground takeoff roll is listed as 2408 ft. I thought that was very poor to be rolling on the ground for almost half a mile to get to liftoff.

The balanced field length for a Citation SII is 2660 ft under the same conditions (using same % of gross weight, which is 12,500 lbs), and this is accelerate to V1, engine fail, and stop, not just to liftoff.

Time to climb from 2000 ft to 17,000 ft is listed as 11 minutes, or an average of 1,360 FPM. Note that this is at 1000 lbs UNDER GROSS! That is very underwhelming. To put it in perspective, the SR22 climb rate is about the same (albeit at 0 MSL and ISA).

Cruise figures at 17,000 ft are:

MCT 283 KTAS, 84 GPH, 3.37 nm/gal

LRC 217 KTAS, 54 GPH, 4.02 nm/gal.

Obviously 17,000 ft is a bad altitude for a jet and those figures demonstrate that clearly.

Total landing distance (ground roll?) with max flaps is listed as 2658 ft. Not clear what the landing weight is, perhaps still the 5000 lbs.

The numbers are so bad, I wonder if the person making this document made errors. Is the climb rate at ISA+10 and 1000 lbs under gross REALLY that bad?

Mike C.

Back at 'ya dude !

Hard to believe any one but the marketing department is involved at this point in time. From history this is as good as it gets

Andrew

With the current price of Jet A, the cost per NM at LRC is cheaper and faster than most turbo'd pistons at 17K - which is worst case scenario for the jet. So your post tells me VFR direct departures, avoiding DPs and STARs, are feasible which will make this jet "faster" by default. If you get stuck at 17K for a couple of minutes waiting for a clearance, its NBD. If you get dropped early on arrival, cancel below 180 and go direct.

Is there a link to the chart you are quoting Mike?
-----------
Avgas 4NM/$4.00

JetA 4NM/2.50

Does an SR22 really climb at 1300fpm to 17,000? Impressive.

Chip-

My TN Bonanza did close to that.

No, not even close.
Neither will the 421 at a reasonable airspeed.

I was having a hard time understanding why this discussion is so polarizing and then it became apparent it all depends on what lenses you're looking through...

If you're a piston driver with short missions - like a lot of the current Cirrus fleet - this light jet looks quite appealing, higher, faster, more automation, parachute, and new.

If you're a jet-a driver you see it's shortcoming comparable to the "jet" and "TP" marketplace.

Both positions have their merit and I can see why the legacy CJ type marketplace will remain strong and is not a real competitor to the SF50.

Different strokes for different folks.....

****thread drift alert*****

If you could see what's parked on the ramp at KAIK right now you'd be blown away. These guys are in town and there catering bills are more than my annual operating budget....

http://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com ... xecutives/

G5's are passé with this crowd. Falcon 7X's are more the norm...

Peace,
Don

Wow these numbers are bad, nobody buys a jet to go slow or fly at LRC.
11min to get to 17000 ft?

That cant be right.