Mustang?

No the OP was asking about a Meridian and Mike is trying to convince him to upgrade to a jet . The 560 is fast, and I bet real fast off the end of the runway landing on an icy runway with poor to nil braking action.

My plane is fine on ice. Maybe it's because the Williams go to very low power after touchdown and I have anti skid but I have not have an issue landing, taking off, or taxiing on ice.


Mike

Does airplane anti skid work on ice? Doesn’t do much in a car.

Chip-

It feels like it keeps it more stable and going forward. I live in the mountains so pretty used to driving on ice and yeah I agree Anti lock in cars isn't great.

To be fair I am not trying to land on a super short icy runways.

The Anti skid does seem to do well though. Even on wet runway when you hit paint.

Mike

Challenge accepted. Let's compare your recent flight history to see where you went that I could not go.


Is it?

I have been absolutely stunned by how little runway my V uses. I routinely land without using any brakes. If I do use them aggressively, I can stop in 1200 ft ground roll. It's crazy and not what I expected.

My adders for wet, snow, and ice with TRs are rather small, typically under 1000 ft for landing, a bit longer for takeoff.


Looking at your tracking history on FlightAware shows I could have made every one of those trips in the V *even* with runways covered in ice.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N698WA/history

(I see back to Dec 19, about 40 flights, history depth varies with your account status)

I think the shortest runway you have used recently was KSFF at 4500 ft long on a trip that was 450 nm. Assume -5 C and ice covered runways at KSFF and let's look at takeoff and landing distances. I'll assume 500 lbs cabin load, 2000 lbs trip fuel (450 nm with a 40 knot headwind, 1:28 flight time) and 1000 lbs reserve. Takeoff weight 12,700 lbs, landing weight 10,700 lbs.

Takeoff distance: 2340 ft (dry), 3950 ft (ice)

Landing distance: 2100 ft (dry), 3020 (ice)

The book says it can be done and I believe it based on experience. Both numbers have lots of margin in them. Takeoff is with engine failure at the worst time and to 35 ft AGL, landing is 50 ft AGL at runway threshold. Roughly speaking, the actual ground runs in both cases are about 1000 ft shorter than the book numbers.

So, exactly where do you go that I can't?

One of the reasons I sold my MU2 is that I realized I just wasn't using it to go to really small airports. They tended not to have jet fuel, and the cheaper jet fuel was often at the bigger airports. Your flight history suggest the same is true of you as well, going to relatively big airports.

For your mission profile, TRs are a must. In a non TR airplane, like the CJs, its no good.

Mike C.

Given enough money to buy and operate an M600, you can fly a Citation V instead.

The money you save on the lower hull value makes up for the higher fuel bills.

Math check:

Capital expense:

M600: $3.0 M to buy. At 6% interest/growth, that is $180,000 year.

C560V: $1.5 M to buy. At 6% interest/growth, that is $90,000 year.

Insurance:

M600: 1.2% of hull value, $36,000/year

C560V: 1.0% of hull value, $15,000/year

Usage for 40,000 nm of trips:

M600: 230 knots block speed, $550/hour, 174 hours, $95,650

C560V: 360 knots block speed, $1500/hour, 111 hours, $166,667

Total cost each year:

M600: $311,650

C560V: $271,667

It sounds ridiculous to compare the two, but in reality, the Citation is delivering an incredibly better experience for the same money or less for this mission profile. If the interest rate goes up, the Citation wins even more, and the 6% number is already unrealistic in today's market. I also suffer less downside market risk. In 5 or 10 years, how much will the market value of an M600 decrease? Probably a lot more than the Citation.

The equation flips if the travel increases. At around 70,000 nm each year, there will be parity. That's 300 hours of the M600, which is a lot of usage.

I can't really afford an M600, I can't tie up my capital that much. I can fly a Citation V.

Mike C.

For a Citation V, however, you'd need the Single Pilot Exemption. Commercial certificate, second class medical, 1000 hours total time including 500 hours turbine time as SIC or PIC, 50 hours night time, and 75 hours instrument (40 actual).

you don't have to sell me. I just want to know how you got 6% in the market last year!?

You don't need 2nd class medical. That requirement used to exist but was dropped in 2012. Any place that still lists that as a requirement is out of date.

The rest of what you list is correct.

Mike C.

How about 2700 ft. Ilulissat Greenland. Wet light rain?

By not having an aircraft loan. Your return on capital can be either from investment or from lack of interest on a loan.

Long term running average for SP500 is about 10%.

Last 10 years for SP500:

2023 0.58%
2022 -19.44%
2021 26.89%
2020 16.26%
2019 28.88%
2018 -6.24%
2017 19.42%
2016 9.54%
2015 -0.73%
2014 11.39%
2013 29.60%

Up 163% over 10 years, almost exactly 10% per year.

The value of my V has jumped so high in the last 2 years, its crazy. My return on that investment if I were to sell today would be like 60% per year. That is my "aluminum futures" contract.

Mike C.

you don't have to sell me. I just want to know how you got 6% in the market last year!?

Given enough money to buy and operate an M600, you can fly a Citation V instead.

The money you save on the lower hull value makes up for the higher fuel bills.

Math check:

Capital expense:

M600: $3.0 M to buy. At 6% interest/growth, that is $180,000 year.

C560V: $1.5 M to buy. At 6% interest/growth, that is $90,000 year.

Insurance:

M600: 1.2% of hull value, $36,000/year

C560V: 1.0% of hull value, $15,000/year

Usage for 40,000 nm of trips:

M600: 230 knots block speed, $550/hour, 174 hours, $95,650

C560V: 360 knots block speed, $1500/hour, 111 hours, $166,667

Total cost each year:

M600: $311,650

C560V: $271,667

It sounds ridiculous to compare the two, but in reality, the Citation is delivering an incredibly better experience for the same money or less for this mission profile. If the interest rate goes up, the Citation wins even more, and the 6% number is already unrealistic in today's market. I also suffer less downside market risk. In 5 or 10 years, how much will the market value of an M600 decrease? Probably a lot more than the Citation.

The equation flips if the travel increases. At around 70,000 nm each year, there will be parity. That's 300 hours of the M600, which is a lot of usage.

I can't really afford an M600, I can't tie up my capital that much. I can fly a Citation V.

Mike C.