Username Protected wrote:
I don't know how you self insure on the Happ/Mapp stuff except maybe it's different for a Legacy PC12. I've had several AGM's/Boxes crap out that were $150K not under warranty.
Penman got his hot section done for not very much $$
If I get a CJ3 I'll still be using Epps for MX.
And.... nothing costs more than depreciation. I've lost nothing on my PC12. If you lose $200K a year on a CJ3 divided by 200 hours is $1000 an hour.
On HAPP, I've got Garmin GTNs for the navigators so that's one less $$$ concern. The typical problems in the legacy birds are the EFIS CRTs. About 15k each. But, there are secondary sources for overhauled ones for about half that. The other big issue is the ADHARs - these are very expensive but not a Honeywell product so not covered under HAPP anyway. So far, I have lost one CRT but that was a year I was running with HAPP. There are no single big ticket items like Jason and Michael have on the NG so the out of pocket risk is minimized. I agree with Jason, that you
must run HAPP if you are flying an NG but you can get away with it on the legacy birds if you are prepared.
Penman's hot section cost is a mystery to me.... I just did it through EPPS. Went as planned but it sure wasn't $7k.
I went back and took a look at a full year of MX on my bird for 2017 (annual and recommended 150 hour inspection). The annual was $42,100 and the 150 hour was $8,200. So, altogether about $50k. Plus about $7k for a few other items that I did separately. That's consistent with other years. There were no extraordinary items on any of these invoices.
Technician cost at the Pilatus certifed center was $110/hr. On the Pilatus there are a (very few) things you can (or should) do at anywhere but a Pilatus certified service center. For those very few things, using a competent but not Pilatus authorized center, the technician cost was $85/hr (about 75% of the certified center). Overall cost for these limited items was about 2/3 the cost of the certified center.
The outfit that did this limited work is competent and responsible and capable of doing most or all of a Phase 1-4 inspection on a Cessna turbine. For reasons of history and installed base and the relative simplicity and commonality of most of the Cessna jet series, there are plenty of these types of operations and they are generally accepted as doing fine work.
Now, would you attempt to do all of your service on a Pilatus in a similar way at a non-certified center?
Absolutely no. The PC-12 requires all sorts of specialized knowledge and sometimes tools. Some parts are Pilatus designated and only available through those channels. So, you pay 25% more for labor than you might have to otherwise and sometimes double the price for exactly the same part.
Is the service and support good through those Pilatus service centers?
Absolutely yes. I have nothing but praise for how EPPS (where I go) does business. The work is excellent, delivered on time and they make good on their occasional mistakes. The avionics department at EPPS is extraordinary - the best I have ever used on any of my planes. Just understand there are no bargains and you essentially must go down the path of using an outfit like this if you own and operate a PC-12. It's part of the decision you make when you get one of these unique and adaptable planes.
With regard to per-mile operating cost, I've attached a comparison Cessna did for a (new) CJ3 versus my (legacy) PC-12/47. According to this comparison, on a per mile basis, the CJ-3 is actually slightly less costly.
Take this comparison with a (big) grain of salt. They compare 1st year (under warranty) TAP pricing (lowest tier) against an inflated rate of engine restoration (HSI and overhaul) on the PT-6 (and they probably estimated about $120-150k too high). However, they also use a fuel price of $4.60 a gal (which disfavors the CJ3). I'm mostly visiting CAA FBOs and pay about a dollar less than that on average. Their total MX (parts and labor) is also about 15% too high for the PC-12 based on my experience.
So, after adjusting for all this, while I don't for a minute think it's less costly to fly a CJ3 than a PC-12, the gap on a per-mile basis is a lot smaller than others have suggested in this thread.
Now, if you start comparing the PC-12 with a legacy Citation, running on a low utilization program and using the kinds of maintenance facilities I mention above, the gap comes very close indeed.
And, I agree the comparison gets more difficult when you include (economic) depreciation into the complete financial analysis. But, if you are comparing a legacy Citation, which has already taken nearly all the depreciation it ever will, then you can set this aside as well.
Tax considerations may also play a big part if you can claim a high percentage of business utilization and you have income you can offset. Some say that's just a cash flow consideration but, if you assume you will keep the aircraft (or exchange as you upgrade) until you pass it to your estate, that's not so (at least under current rules).
For the most part, I'm completely convinced you can operate a legacy Citation or one of the smaller CJs for about the same variable cost (including MX/reserves and on a per-mile, not per hour basis) as a PC-12 if you do it as I describe above. I know guys that do and they are not lying.
As I said, I love my PC-12. I've got 600 hours until overhaul. I plan to do the overhaul and I'll probably fly it for another 300 after that before I make any decisions about an alternative. This is not a "mine's better" perspective.
