10 Jun 2025, 15:52 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 07 Mar 2018, 22:04 |
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Joined: 01/31/09 Posts: 5193 Post Likes: +3032 Location: Northern NJ
Aircraft: SR22;CJ2+;C510
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Username Protected wrote: At CAE I usually get JFK LOC 22L circle to 31L during CE-500 single pilot recurrent.
Interesting. Never got that in the CJ2 program at CAE. That approach is hardly typical. Sets you up for an easy right base directly over the airport to a runway over 4X what you need.
_________________ Allen
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 07 Mar 2018, 22:24 |
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Joined: 05/29/13 Posts: 14339 Post Likes: +12076 Company: Easy Ice, LLC Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
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Username Protected wrote: I hope you guys keep posting in these jet threads. I'll never fly one let alone own one but I do enjoy reading about it.
You're all pretty good writers too. Keep it coming.
Dave ....Unless Mark gets you in the cockpit. Then its not long before you are hooked.
_________________ Mark Hangen Deputy Minister of Ice (aka FlyingIceperson) Power of the Turbine "Jet Elite"
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 07 Mar 2018, 23:24 |
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Joined: 12/31/17 Posts: 1037 Post Likes: +608 Location: KADS
Aircraft: C560
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Username Protected wrote: At CAE I usually get JFK LOC 22L circle to 31L during CE-500 single pilot recurrent.
Interesting. Never got that in the CJ2 program at CAE. That approach is hardly typical. Sets you up for an easy right base directly over the airport to a runway over 4X what you need.
But you must touchdown within 500 feet of the 1000 foot marker. Add the not so great visuals of the sim which leaves holes in what you can see looking to the right. In the sim if you will lean over to the center of the cockpit you can see much better on this approach.
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 07 Mar 2018, 23:27 |
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Joined: 12/31/17 Posts: 1037 Post Likes: +608 Location: KADS
Aircraft: C560
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Username Protected wrote: I should know this but..... If you break out early, say 1,000'agl, on a circle to land with 500' minimums, can you circle from that altitude or do you have to continue the descent to 500'? You want the official answer or what people do? 
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 07 Mar 2018, 23:35 |
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Joined: 01/29/09 Posts: 4756 Post Likes: +2467 Company: retired corporate mostly Location: Chico,California KCIC/CL56
Aircraft: 1956 Champion 7EC
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Quote: If you break out early, say 1,000'agl, Cancel! 
_________________ Jeff
soloed in a land of Superhomers/1959 Cessna 150, retired with Proline 21/ CJ4.
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 08 Mar 2018, 00:01 |
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Joined: 01/31/09 Posts: 5193 Post Likes: +3032 Location: Northern NJ
Aircraft: SR22;CJ2+;C510
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Username Protected wrote: I should know this but..... If you break out early, say 1,000'agl, on a circle to land with 500' minimums, can you circle from that altitude or do you have to continue the descent to 500'? You can CTL from any altitude and point in the approach that you can make it work while you stay within your category circling radius. Example is the TEB ILS6 CTL 1 @ TORBY. That CTL you don't fly to minimums and the circle is outside of normal circling radius. Starting the CTL before you are within your category circling radius is technically a no-no.
_________________ Allen
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 08 Mar 2018, 09:41 |
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Joined: 06/09/09 Posts: 4438 Post Likes: +3304
Aircraft: C182P, Merlin IIIC
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Username Protected wrote: .... starter won't disengage (have to get out and disconnect battery to fix a stuck starter)
This happened to a Merlin several weeks ago. Pilot did not catch it. Created some sort of electrical failure emergency leaving the pilot with an ipad for an IMC descent to low weather and emergency landing at the military airport southeast of Dallas. Emergency gear extension mishandled due to all the excitement so the aircraft is a write off. In the citation, what cues do you have that would alert to a stuck engaged starter?
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 08 Mar 2018, 10:43 |
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Joined: 09/04/10 Posts: 3536 Post Likes: +3228
Aircraft: C55, PC-12
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Username Protected wrote: I should know this but..... If you break out early, say 1,000'agl, on a circle to land with 500' minimums, can you circle from that altitude or do you have to continue the descent to 500'? You can CTL from any altitude and point in the approach that you can make it work while you stay within your category circling radius. Example is the TEB ILS6 CTL 1 @ TORBY. That CTL you don't fly to minimums and the circle is outside of normal circling radius. Starting the CTL before you are within your category circling radius is technically a no-no.
Allen, could you expand on this? I don't remember any of this rule? In real conditions, the visibility is usually the limitation on how far away I can get from the airport. Nothing worse than going missed from a circling approach!
_________________ John Lockhart Phoenix, AZ Ridgway, CO
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 08 Mar 2018, 10:50 |
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Joined: 02/22/09 Posts: 2699 Post Likes: +2214 Location: KLOM
Aircraft: J35, L-19, PT17
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Username Protected wrote: I hope you guys keep posting in these jet threads. I'll never fly one let alone own one but I do enjoy reading about it.
You're all pretty good writers too. Keep it coming.
Dave ....Unless Mark gets you in the cockpit. Then its not long before you are hooked.
I'm certain I would be.
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 08 Mar 2018, 11:27 |
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Joined: 08/15/11 Posts: 2575 Post Likes: +1178 Location: Mandan, ND
Aircraft: V35
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Username Protected wrote: You can CTL from any altitude and point in the approach that you can make it work while you stay within your category circling radius.
Example is the TEB ILS6 CTL 1 @ TORBY. That CTL you don't fly to minimums and the circle is outside of normal circling radius.
Starting the CTL before you are within your category circling radius is technically a no-no.
Allen, could you expand on this? I don't remember any of this rule? In real conditions, the visibility is usually the limitation on how far away I can get from the airport. Nothing worse than going missed from a circling approach!
John...section 5-4-20 of the AIM. There are old and new criteria and the radi varies based on the new or old standards.
The old way (not all circling approaches are updated) has Category C (what we use in the C90) at 1.7 miles. New/updated radi varies on the MSL and Category.
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 08 Mar 2018, 11:33 |
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Joined: 01/31/09 Posts: 5193 Post Likes: +3032 Location: Northern NJ
Aircraft: SR22;CJ2+;C510
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Username Protected wrote: Allen, could you expand on this? I don't remember any of this rule? In real conditions, the visibility is usually the limitation on how far away I can get from the airport. Nothing worse than going missed from a circling approach!
Here is a Wally Roberts article about CTL - http://www.terps.com/ifrr/nov97.pdfThe FAA has changed the size of the circling areas since that article was published and you have to refer to the approach chart to see if the old or new circling radius applies - https://www.nbaa.org/ops/airspace/issues/20130418-faa-expands-size-of-protected-airspace-for-circling-approaches.phpAttachment: 2018-03-08_1019.png Attachment: 2018-03-08_1018.png Attachment: 2018-03-08_1018_001.png Attachment: 2018-03-08_1045.png Getting out of the CTL protected area would be a bust on a checkride. CJ2 circles as a CAT C which was 1.7 NM protected airspace under the old system and 2.7 NM or better under the new. On a RWY 27 approach CTL 36 you watch your GPS/DME distance to 27 and don't begin your circle off the 27 approach until you are within 1.7/2.7 NM. And then keep turning towards the landing runway and don't make a 90 degree turn and fly a downwind to the landing runway that will take you more then 1.7/2.7 nm from the airport. Now if you breakout to a higher ceiling and fly a larger visual pattern there will likely be no harm and no foul. But once you get beyond the circling radius protected area you are on your own for obstacle protection.
Please login or Register for a free account via the link in the red bar above to download files.
_________________ Allen
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 08 Mar 2018, 16:19 |
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Joined: 05/29/13 Posts: 14339 Post Likes: +12076 Company: Easy Ice, LLC Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
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Username Protected wrote: .... starter won't disengage (have to get out and disconnect battery to fix a stuck starter)
This happened to a Merlin several weeks ago. Pilot did not catch it. Created some sort of electrical failure emergency leaving the pilot with an ipad for an IMC descent to low weather and emergency landing at the military airport southeast of Dallas. Emergency gear extension mishandled due to all the excitement so the aircraft is a write off. In the citation, what cues do you have that would alert to a stuck engaged starter?
One of the starter lights will be illuminated after the engine is running AND the starter disengage button doesn’t extinguish it. Do not shut the engine off. It will shear the starter shaft. Have the aircraft chalked. Parking brake set and then open the door and disconnect the battery in the tailcone. In the Encore that added a switch that allows the pilot so disconnect the battery from the cockpit.
Please login or Register for a free account via the link in the red bar above to download files.
_________________ Mark Hangen Deputy Minister of Ice (aka FlyingIceperson) Power of the Turbine "Jet Elite"
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Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II Posted: 08 Mar 2018, 16:40 |
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Joined: 01/31/09 Posts: 5193 Post Likes: +3032 Location: Northern NJ
Aircraft: SR22;CJ2+;C510
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Username Protected wrote: Parking brake set and then open the door and disconnect the battery in the tailcone. In the Encore that added a switch that allows the pilot so disconnect the battery from the cockpit. You don't have a Battery Disconnect Switch in the cockpit in the 500/550? Attachment: 2018-03-08_1538.png
Please login or Register for a free account via the link in the red bar above to download files.
_________________ Allen
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