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15 Nov 2025, 14:49 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2021, 19:12 
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Jack, the wide angle camera can distort the view and apparent angle, so it’s hard to say how much bank he has. The airspeed indicator is impacted by his static port issues and is also unreliable.

That said, I think he has been rotating and climbing at 95 knots plus, and yes, the stall speed could be in the low 80’s at current weight. That is certainly a big safety concern, but if it did stall, the nose wheel is the one that should have hit with the main wings not dropping and no loss of aileron control.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2021, 19:15 
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Hitting the wing tip like that should be a big area of concern, not just because of potential damage, but why?

It looks like once he was over the runway he got slow, much slower than his lift off speed, and then the wing appears to drop. Was that a main wing stall? If so, it should be rather concerning if one wing can stall before the other and before the canard and drop like that with no engine torque. :bugeye:


A failure to do power off landings. Should have been done very early in testing. Glides, stalls, steep turns, power off 180s.

Banging the wingtip is a direct result of his lack of testing program. Ground got bigger, he got slower, he didn’t know what airspeed to hold until the round out and he banged it in.


I haven’t watched much recently, but has he gotten it high enough to safely do that type of testing? No way I would test stalls in a new design at pattern altitude!!! If it does have a nasty propensity to drop a wing, Peter would be dead had he attempted stall testing without altitude to recover or bail out.
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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2021, 19:35 
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How can we be talking about main wing stall on a canard? The safety of a canard depends on the canard stalling first, if the main wing stalls while the canard is still flying couldn't that lead to a potentially unrecoverable inability to get the nose down?


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2021, 20:13 
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How? Because Peter’s grasp of many engineering fundamentals is nearly nil and he has done no flight envelope testing to verify the aerodynamic behavior against the design.

Just spitballing, but perhaps (just) the outboard section of the wing stalled (when it should not have stalled)?

I am also concerned that he is again flying in shirtsleeves; no Nomex, gloves, brain bucket or chute.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2021, 20:40 
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I think the wing strike was pilot-induced. Watch the left aileron in the couple of seconds before impact. It stays steadily deflected up all the way until impact. Peter had PIO issues on his earlier flights; left-wing-down also matches with him sitting right seat with his right hand on the sidestick. Over-controlling in the flare will put left roll in.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2021, 21:22 
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One thing that strikes me is that the left-wing just does not seem that low, not nearly low enough hit the runway. If that's enough to hit the runway, how is this thing ever going to handle a moderate crosswind landing?

This is the instant the left tire hit the ground.

Attachment:
Screen Shot 2021-02-08 at 5.03.29 PM.png


How far is the right tire from the ground, maybe 18"?

The other thing is that the airplane was still doing 80+ knots when the wind dropped during the landing. What is the stall speed? is it possibly as high as 80Kts? It's possible the wing dropped because of something else like the pilot. But if the stall speed is 80Kts; Yikes.

I don't recall where Peter had done any stall testing to find the airspeed. But if it's 80Kts it's way too fast for any certified single. That's something like a Lancair 4P which is a frightening airplane IMHO.

Jack


Lancair 4P is definitely NOT a frightening airplane. It does exactly what it was designed to do. It's an extremely well engineered, well made and very nice flying airplane with a wonderful glide ratio. I can't remember 100% because I sold mine 1.5 years ago but it stalled around 70kts. Also climbs at 2000FPM which gets you out of the danger zone really quickly. The Raptor will never have any of the excellent qualities of the Lancair. Like all airplanes, the Lancair has weaknesses which are total intolerance to icing and a VREF speed of 100kts which is something that can be learned to deal with.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2021, 21:29 
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I do not understand my interest in watching this train wreck. What is wrong with people that we enjoy following such a mess of a project? LOL

I’ve quit reading this thread a dozen times or more. Then I see three pages in one day and I’m “What did Peter do NOW?!?” Click and I’m back in here. Maybe we should form a support group. Call it RAA: Raptor Addicts Anonymous.

On a related note, what is Peter doing screwing around with YouTube? He should be on Netflix or HBO. He’s at least as good as the Tiger King.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2021, 21:29 
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Lancair 4P is definitely NOT a frightening airplane. It does exactly what it was designed to do. It's an extremely well engineered, well made and very nice flying airplane with a wonderful glide ratio. I can't remember 100% because I sold mine 1.5 years ago but it stalled around 70kts. Also climbs at 2000FPM which gets you out of the danger zone really quickly. The Raptor will never have any of the excellent qualities of the Lancair. Like all airplanes, the Lancair has weaknesses which are total intolerance to icing and a VREF speed of 100kts which is something that can be learned to deal with.


The safety issue I see with the Lancair and any other piston single with a high stall speed is that if you ever have to make an off field landing, you are going to be carrying a lot of energy to the ground.

Other than that, I agree the IV is a well engineered airplane and not at all like the Raptor.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2021, 21:46 
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Here's the other view of dragging a wingtip. And people kept thinking he was going to hit the prop on the ground, not a wingtip!


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2021, 22:19 
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Username Protected wrote:
I think the wing strike was pilot-induced. Watch the left aileron in the couple of seconds before impact. It stays steadily deflected up all the way until impact. Peter had PIO issues on his earlier flights; left-wing-down also matches with him sitting right seat with his right hand on the sidestick. Over-controlling in the flare will put left roll in.

This.

Peter said as much in the video. Roll control is overly sensitive and he over controlled it and banged the wing. End of story. There was no stall.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2021, 22:29 
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According to the G3X, the bank when hitting the ground was 10 degrees.

Could the trim tab he screwed on to the edge of the wing to stop the plane from rolling have caused the left wing to hit. If I remember correctly, it was a trim tab attached to the edge of the left wing since the plane was rolling during flight. Looking at the way the plane rotates off the ground, I'd presume the stall speed is definitely over 75 knots.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2021, 23:21 
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Username Protected wrote:
One thing that strikes me is that the left-wing just does not seem tthat low, not nearly low enough hit the runway. If that's enough to hit the runway, how is this thing ever going to handle a moderate crosswind landing?


It’s possible this thing is different, but the velocity is landed in a crab. The gear is designed to handle the side loads. And it does so very nicely.

No wing low landing.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2021, 23:38 
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So, he thinks the turbos seized and cut off air to the engine? No competent design allows the engine to asphyxiate due to an induction system blockage. I guess he never bothered to install alternate air doors in the induction system. Normal design is one after the filter, in case the filter plugs up, and one after the turbo in case the turbo quits turning. Of course, Pete has to relearn every design mistake from the last 100+ years of aviation for himself. How many does he have left to learn?


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2021, 23:55 
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Username Protected wrote:
Of course, Pete has to relearn every design mistake from the last 100+ years of aviation for himself. How many does he have left to learn?

He will be dead before he learns them all.

His tenacity will be fatal. I keep praying he will give up and apply his energy in some other way.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 09 Feb 2021, 10:29 
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Username Protected wrote:
I am also concerned that he is again flying in shirtsleeves; no Nomex, gloves, brain bucket or chute.
Yes, this speaks volumes about this lackadaisical approach to flight testing.


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