BeechTalk - BT - Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Diesel

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Feb 2021, 13:16

Lost the Redrive seal because the keeper ring was left out. Yikes.

[youtube]https://youtu.be/e77CG9HTkLw[/youtube]

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Feb 2021, 13:23

Username Protected wrote:

They were used in the VW Touareg and Porsche Cayenne TDI’s as well as the Audi Q7, and A7. Should be plenty out there.

dunno what variant is used here, but the last mods on this page
https://www.motorreviewer.com/engine.php?engine_id=91
shows
- CAP, CCW, CDY, CASA, CARA
- 239 hp (176 kW)/4,000 rpm; 369 lb ft (500Nm)/1,500 rpm. Application: Audi A4 (B7, B8), Audi A5, Audi A6 (C6), Audi Q5, Audi Q7, Porsche Cayenne, Volkswagen Touareg.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Feb 2021, 13:52

He did a good job getting it down. Slapped that wing on the runway though. He really doesn't seem concerned about the wing at all. I think I would check a few things to make sure that thing isn't going to fall off.

I don't know if I would trust that engine anymore. I'm no turbo guy, so I don't know how likely the turbos choked it out. At least he plans on running it on the ground to gather data. I think I would make it a test stand engine and put a new one in.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Feb 2021, 13:53

Username Protected wrote:

Lost the Redrive seal because the keeper ring was left out. Yikes.

[youtube]https://youtu.be/e77CG9HTkLw[/youtube]

Makes you wonder what else was left out? LOL what a mess.

I do not understand my interest in watching this train wreck. What is wrong with people that we enjoy following such a mess of a project? LOL

Mike

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Feb 2021, 14:02

Username Protected wrote:

Lost the Redrive seal because the keeper ring was left out. Yikes.

[youtube]https://youtu.be/e77CG9HTkLw[/youtube]

after 40+ years of dealing with equipment and all kinds of high performance engines, I can safely say I have never, ever, seen a retaining ring on an oil seal. That goes for every engine I have came in contact with, from aviation, to stationary diesels, to high performance offroad race engines.
Most likely he came across the rare undersized seal that did not have a proper press fit. Thread Locker makes a very good product that essentially glues the seal in place, and we have used that on a lot of applications over the years.
I would be more concerned with a possible overpressure situation that could blow the seal out. We detonated an LSx engine at King of the Hammers a few years ago, and blew a hole in two pistons. The resultant pressure spike in the crankcase blew the front seal out of the engine and we had a similar event to this one, albeit our resulted in a total rebuild of the engine. But when you are asking an LS to make 850 hp when naturally asperated, things tend to come untogether very quickly! :bugeye:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Feb 2021, 14:39

Username Protected wrote:

Makes you wonder what else was left out? LOL what a mess.

I do not understand my interest in watching this train wreck. What is wrong with people that we enjoy following such a mess of a project? LOL

Mike

An important lesson on how to do something is to first learn how NOT to do it. :rofl:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Feb 2021, 16:38

Username Protected wrote:

He did a good job getting it down. Slapped that wing on the runway though. He really doesn't seem concerned about the wing at all. I think I would check a few things to make sure that thing isn't going to fall off.

Remember that when the Wasabi guys were out there they found a cracked glue joint along one of the ribs, and it hadn't even flown yet. How do you even check the structural integrity of the rest of the wing?

The failure was caused by his own poor practice (which he admits), and then he admits that the ailerons are too sensitive and he knows they need to be changed. It's a miracle that worse things haven't happened already.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Feb 2021, 16:50

Good reminder for us all. Dead stick landings you gotta nail airspeed and not pitch up when the ground gets close. Surprisingly, Peter did a good job here. Hindsight he should have cut the corner a little more and done some power off gliding before the inevitable failure.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Feb 2021, 16:58

Username Protected wrote:

Lost the Redrive seal because the keeper ring was left out. Yikes.

after 40+ years of dealing with equipment and all kinds of high performance engines, I can safely say I have never, ever, seen a retaining ring on an oil seal. That goes for every engine I have came in contact with, from aviation, to stationary diesels, to high performance offroad race engines.
Most likely he came across the rare undersized seal that did not have a proper press fit. Thread Locker makes a very good product that essentially glues the seal in place, and we have used that on a lot of applications over the years.
I would be more concerned with a possible overpressure situation that could blow the seal out. We detonated an LSx engine at King of the Hammers a few years ago, and blew a hole in two pistons. The resultant pressure spike in the crankcase blew the front seal out of the engine and we had a similar event to this one, albeit our resulted in a total rebuild of the engine. But when you are asking an LS to make 850 hp when naturally asperated, things tend to come untogether very quickly! :bugeye:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Feb 2021, 16:59

Username Protected wrote:

Good reminder for us all. Dead stick landings you gotta nail airspeed and not pitch up when the ground gets close. Surprisingly, Peter did a good job here. Hindsight he should have cut the corner a little more and done some power off gliding before the inevitable failure.

I thought he did a pretty good job too, right up to the point of making contact with the runway. Didn't expect such a rough finish.

I'm beating a dead horse, but his test flights appear to be without a plan and without documentation. Perhaps he considers the videos to be his documentation.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Feb 2021, 17:21

Wow, he really smacked that left wingtip on the runway. :eek:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Feb 2021, 17:46

Shutdown info starts ~ 14:00 mnts..

Apparently, a few folks came up with..

from 26-28psi readings & within a few secs, oil pressure went to ~ 5psi, with a corresponding rpm drop from 2,000, starving the turbo bearings, which may have ..ahem, "coked 'em up", causing them to wind down, chocking off the intake.

The turbo bearings seem (quick feel) to be spinning ok now, or at least to try ground engine runs.

I know at least some modern diesel engines will auto shutdown with low (doesn't take much either) or coolant loss, dunno if there is a low oil pressure auto shutoff feature.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Feb 2021, 18:27

Hitting the wing tip like that should be a big area of concern, not just because of potential damage, but why?

It looks like once he was over the runway he got slow, much slower than his lift off speed, and then the wing appears to drop. Was that a main wing stall? If so, it should be rather concerning if one wing can stall before the other and before the canard and drop like that with no engine torque. :bugeye:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Feb 2021, 18:48

Username Protected wrote:

Hitting the wing tip like that should be a big area of concern, not just because of potential damage, but why?

It looks like once he was over the runway he got slow, much slower than his lift off speed, and then the wing appears to drop. Was that a main wing stall? If so, it should be rather concerning if one wing can stall before the other and before the canard and drop like that with no engine torque. :bugeye:

A failure to do power off landings. Should have been done very early in testing. Glides, stalls, steep turns, power off 180s.

Banging the wingtip is a direct result of his lack of testing program. Ground got bigger, he got slower, he didn’t know what airspeed to hold until the round out and he banged it in.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Feb 2021, 19:01

One thing that strikes me is that the left-wing just does not seem that low, not nearly low enough hit the runway. If that's enough to hit the runway, how is this thing ever going to handle a moderate crosswind landing?

This is the instant the left tire hit the ground.

Attachment:

Screen Shot 2021-02-08 at 5.03.29 PM.png

How far is the right tire from the ground, maybe 18"?

The other thing is that the airplane was still doing 80+ knots when the wind dropped during the landing. What is the stall speed? is it possibly as high as 80Kts? It's possible the wing dropped because of something else like the pilot. But if the stall speed is 80Kts; Yikes.

I don't recall where Peter had done any stall testing to find the airspeed. But if it's 80Kts it's way too fast for any certified single. That's something like a Lancair 4P which is a frightening airplane IMHO.

Jack