Yes. This is my first experience flying SOP as a crew. Up to this point I have always flown in and out of the cockpit single-pilot.

I’m trying to learn the correct way to fly as a crew when appropriate. The snowstorm approach into KSAW was a great example of the benefits of two pilots. I do not believe I would have continued single-pilot. My timing in and out would have had to be perfect.

I did get a few PMs from airline guys confirming their airline calls 5kts prior fwiw.

Ask them what their differences is between V1 and Vr?

We are talking about flying Citations here, not airliners.

Btw, how much time did your Simcom instructors have flying actual Citations?

Allen,
Simcom >> most have probably never seen the inside of a TBM. Certainly many have missed the "gotchas" that can kill an unsuspecting pilot new to the aircraft. BWTHDIK?

Ask them what their differences is between V1 and Vr?

We are talking about flying Citations here, not airliners.

Btw, how much time did your Simcom instructors have flying actual Citations?

Ask them what their differences is between V1 and Vr?

We are talking about flying Citations here, not airliners.

Btw, how much time did your Simcom instructors have flying actual Citations?

Not sure. The TCE seemed to have more time in Citations.

Maybe the airline guys will chime in here with more details for us.

On this issue, how does the type of plane affect philosophy? I know if I am SP watching the ASI approach V1, my action will happen sooner than if I am listening for the SIC to call V1 when he sees it. Its hard to argue that....unless the PIC is watching the ASI as well.

So with a crew, should the PIC be monitoring the ASI as well?

The PIC needs to stay as PIC always.

The PIC job is to make sure the SIC does not bend the plane.

A light T.O. weight coupled with dry conditions usually yields a narrow V1/VR split.

In contrast a heavy airplane on a wet or contaminated runway can have as much as 30 to 40 knots of split. (135/175 for example)



This is true and translates into - rarely are you backed up against a ballanced field in a citation, unless you are operating out of a lot of short strips.

i.e. If you are late on an reject in a Citation you're probably still going to stop with plenty of runway - unless you are on one of those runways where you really are ballance field limited.

My initial weakness in training was CRM imo. I agree much of this is academic, but its a new skill for flying and I’m curious how the pro crews do it and why.

The Citation is a great jet with a forgiving wing. Maybe the next ride is a Lear. Regardless, I’d like to understand the correct techniques to give us the best chance when the SHTF.

Correct technique is often aircraft dependent.

We used to call out V1 at V1. All the airspeeds were bugged on the ASI both sides. When we got to V1 the pilot not flying would call V1 and simultaneously tap the throttle hand of the pilot flying and he would move that hand off the throttles and to the yoke. We were flying no matter what after V1.

In the all the jets I've flown the PM calls out V1 at V1 and the PF removes his or her hand from the TLs so as to cement the muscle memory that there wont be a reject after V1, as John said. Never used the tapping the hand method, it just becomes very natual to move your hands off the TLs at the V1 call after a while.

The 737 and 777 have an aural callout "VEE ONE" so we cant mess it up (as long as we didnt screw up programing the FMC!)

It should take very little time for a person to register a call they are expecting. Like a runner in the blocks waiting for the gun to start the race. They react in 0.2 seconds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUSJ1LHux7g#t=3m45s

Pilot has his hands off the throttle in 0.5 seconds after V1 call.

So I don't see the need for the 5 knot early V1 call.

The certification test already builds in a 2 second delay to cover that anyways, so you are further padding the V1 call away from what was intended. This could mean continuing a takeoff when you really should not be, that is aborting before reaching true V1.

Mike C.

Sometimes the plane disagrees, for example the KBED Gulfstream.

Nothing is absolute.

Mike C.

Sometimes the plane disagrees, for example the KBED Gulfstream.

Nothing is absolute.

Mike C.