No.

It's all been said before. Search is your friend.

Mike C.

It's not a turbojet, and it's a turboprop that doesn't trip the gross weight requirement for a turboprop type rating. plain and simple. The annual required training is primarily a focus on making sure the pilot understand and is capable of configuring the aircraft properly for flight with one engine inop. It's not a flaps up, gear up airplane when an engine is shut down until certain parameters are met, unlike almost all other twin turboprops.

Everything I have read/discussed on the MU2 SFAR was due to the non-standard way the plane flew in comparison to the other aircraft flown by the majority of pilots.

As for the freight dogs, I did not follow Mike's case either.

Tim

I'm not seeing why that gives the MU2 a pass. An SR22 doesn't fly like a 182. Are all planes supposed to fly the exact same way?

Everything I have read/discussed on the MU2 SFAR was due to the non-standard way the plane flew in comparison to the other aircraft flown by the majority of pilots.

As for the freight dogs, I did not follow Mike's case either.

Tim

Other countries (like Canada, Europe) have different rules and required a type rating. Result was very good history in those countries.

Mitsubishi wanted a type rating.

The plane flies like a jet. Speeds, performance, procedures. A type rating would have been appropriate. Had the MU2 had one from the start, its history would have been radically different.


No twin turboprop is gear down after engine failure.

On the MU2, the flaps are left in place like a jet after engine failure.

Almost all other turboprops are piston heritage, and so have draggy flap systems. Not so with the MU2.

Mike C.

I'm not seeing why that gives the MU2 a pass. An SR22 doesn't fly like a 182. Are all planes supposed to fly the exact same way?

Right....Just put the gear up and fly away in the MU2. don't have to worry about touching flaps. 1/2 the work.

Not really.

Other TPs do not need flaps to get airborne. So TO is with flaps already retracted!

The other half of the equation is gear drag.

On most TPs when the gear is in transit the drag becomes less until the gear is fully stowed.

Not so on mU-2. The drag from the gear actually INCREASEs when the gear is selected up.

Not a big deal with both engines but become important when one engine quits.

This is compounded by the fact that the MU-2 has a electric gear and is very slow to go through its cycle.

Reese will be amused he has a fleet sitting somewhere. If you find it, please let him know where it is.

Mike C.[/quote]

I was speaking of the birds that he is rebuilding, repairing, and brokering.

I did not mean to imply that he had a fleet of his own - sorry.

Peace,
Don

I'm not seeing why that gives the MU2 a pass. An SR22 doesn't fly like a 182. Are all planes supposed to fly the exact same way?

A consequence of their piston heritage, they have too much wing for optimized cruise, so they can get away without flaps on takeoff.

Jets use flaps for takeoff so their wing is optimized for cruise. They don't retract flaps for the same reason the MU2 doesn't.

Commander is a piston airplane evolved into a turboprop. MU2 is a jet evolved into a turboprop. The handling of the flaps is part of that difference.


Amusingly, Commanders do the same as the main gear wheel rotates 90 degrees. It is quite common that gear in transit drag is higher than gear down drag.

The gear retraction penalty for the MU2 is 10 feet of altitude over leaving it out. It is always better to bring it up than leaving it out. There were folks who thought differently about this and left the gear out to 400 ft AGL, but that was proven to be a bad idea. One of the benefits of the SFAR is bringing a common set of good practices to MU2 pilots.


The gear drag is gone in 8 seconds as the chart below will show. This will be consistent one or two engines since it is electric.

What is your gear cycle time? From the videos I can find online, it seems to be about 6-7 seconds. Double it for one engine operating since you have half the pump capacity at that point. Not clear to me that with an engine out, the MU2 isn't faster than the Commander.



There are pros and cons to electric versus hydraulic gear which is why you see both types in airplanes. Electric is more uniform, doesn't suffer from fluid loss. Hydraulic is generally faster (unless an engine fails), but can have the gear come up asymmetrically and induce yaw. Hydraulic is generally easier to design and lighter, but can be a pain to maintain due to leaks, air in lines, water in lines.

It sure is handy to not have a hydraulic pump on the engine when you want to do work on it.

Mike C.

To my knowledge, Reese is not rebuilding or repairing any MU2s.

He brokers a few planes that his customers list with him, not his main business. He currently has no planes listed for sale.

http://mu2b.com/Aircraft_Sales/

Mike C.

You are comparing a swept wing multi position leading edge transport wing to a MU-2!

The big advantage of the little wing is you can use a small hangar. Dont bother with the high wing loading that as much a disadvantage as an advantage.



Whats not highly common is for the simple action of selecting gear up to causes a descent!

There is essentially no gear doors on most commanders. What they normally have is the size of a nose gear door. i would be interested in any FACTS you have about increased drag on the commanders.

"The loss of single hydraulic pump cannot be detected by the pilot in flight" from the Commander POH.

On the MU-2 you have barn doors for gear doors.



Just the gear drag time on the MU-2 is longer than the entire gear retraction cycle on a commander.

The SFAR calls for a positive rate and a AIRSPEED before retracting the gear on a MU-2.

Why is that?

Interesting flight profile from the SFAR. "Engine failure on take off climb not possible".

That is just one of over 20 flight profiles that the pilot is required to show proficiency in by the SFAR.

I have posted it before but it illustrate the point.


.

To my knowledge, Reese is not rebuilding or repairing any MU2s.

He brokers a few planes that his customers list with him, not his main business. He currently has no planes listed for sale.

http://mu2b.com/Aircraft_Sales/

Mike C.