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21 Nov 2025, 14:42 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2021, 13:09 
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Wes Montgomery was a jazz guitar player, stuck in moderate obscurity and low pay. With a wife and 6 kids to feed, he quit gigging, took a second shift job as a welder in an Indianapolis factory and practiced the guitar alone every night, playing quietly so as not to disturb the kids. After two years, he emerged from his apartment as one of the best guitarists in the world.

Maybe Peter should take this opportunity to spend a couple of years woodshedding his engineer chops.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2021, 13:24 
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That engine had no hope for being a reliable long term option...
I am glad that he found out while being in the pattern.
The design, the location, the lack of cooling... too many weak links in the chain to be a viable option for aviation. This is not a car, with constant throttle changes. This engine was not designed for that. As good as those engine are, they were not designed for a constant RPM at high torque...
Diesel is a good option, but they need to be designed from the ground up.
Why would he think that he could do better than Lycoming and Continental, with their large RD department, deep pockets and years of advanced designs... :doh: If those guys have not pulled it off yet, how can a dude in a garage make it happen?


This is exactly why that Bezos guy decided not to pursue his crazy “inter-webs department store” idea. Smart man.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2021, 13:35 
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Going against convention can be successful. But Peter’s decision making seems predicated on the idea that going against convention, in and of itself, will result in success, even in areas where history (and physics) proves otherwise.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2021, 13:37 
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Username Protected wrote:
This is exactly why that Bezos guy decided not to pursue his crazy “inter-webs department store” idea. Smart man.


Bezos did it the right way, and iteratively improved his product. If you recall, he started with just a bookstore - start small/simple, then expand. The bookstore lead to a broader marketplace, which lead to needing more logisitics, which lead to commercializing his IT operations, which lead to his freight/delivery operations.

Peter would've been much smarter to bite off things in the same way. New airframe design, pressurization, new powerplant...they all combine to make a substantial challenge for a small shop that's never built an airplane before. I'd have been shaking out the airframe with a lowly IO550 strapped on the back...and have the diesel and redrive out hours upon hours on the test stand on the ground. Innovation is good, but there's a smart way to do it.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2021, 13:42 
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Today's recently posted Raptor YouTube video makes no mention of yesterday's events.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2021, 13:50 
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True, but you're not going to get investors making another pressurized 4 place single piston Avgas plane.

People would just buy a Lancair IV-P with its TSIO-550 and move on about their day.

The engine was honestly the only thing about this design that interests me. Then again my dream plane is a 6-place pressurized full-deice push/pull plane like the Adams 500 but actually in a decent weight class with lots of range that's Jet-A and under $300k.

I suspect a lot of people were lured by the Jet A burning plane.

Closest I'll probably get is an experimental Cessna 340 with a single turboprop on the front and better wings for better speed. I wouldn't mind a set of Lancair IV wings on it, as critical as the wing loading is. My day job has 120-140 Kt ref speeds and it would be just as easy to fly an approach at that speed as it is 90 kts.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2021, 13:57 
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Strapping an IO550 to a test-mule (prototype 1) wouldn't preclude still aiming, marketing, and planning to burn Jet-A (and getting your investors). If anything, I might actually help as it would show some degree of discipline, planning, and aims toward a more structured test program.

I'd argue that it'd also be faster in the long run...you go slow to go fast. All these flights haven't been able to shake out much around the airframe - things would be further along, and much more confidence inspiring, by going a more iterative route IMHO.

Glad he's on the ground safe and sound, but that project/program is a handful the way it sits currently.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2021, 14:01 
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Username Protected wrote:

Believe what you want, I just design diesel engines for a living.

You designed the Audi engine that PM is using? I did not know that.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2021, 14:21 
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This is exactly why that Bezos guy decided not to pursue his crazy “inter-webs department store” idea. Smart man.


Bezos came up with a new business model to fit a rapidly evolving economic and technological world.

Peter is reusing an existing engine in a physical world where the laws of physics haven’t changed in 15 billion years.

There is absolutely nothing in common between the two of them.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2021, 14:33 
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Username Protected wrote:
Today's recently posted Raptor YouTube video makes no mention of yesterday's events.

He says "tune in to Sunday's video, it will be exciting"


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2021, 14:33 
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Side note...in today's video, looks like he was getting around 135kts (true) on 12GPH at 4000'...just based on quick math on the GS from his circuits, as his IAS still reads high. Downwind legs were ~160kts, upwind legs were ~110kts.

In theory, it would get a bit more speed at higher power settings, but would also mean higher fuel flows...

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2021, 14:49 
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there is an old wisdom I heard from experienced experimental aircraft builder.

never put an experimental engine into an experimental aircraft. do one at a time with known technology in the other

even Steve Wittman did not work on his v8 engine to power his aircraft until the airframe design was well proven.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2021, 15:08 
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Username Protected wrote:
This is exactly why that Bezos guy decided not to pursue his crazy “inter-webs department store” idea. Smart man.


Bezos came up with a new business model to fit a rapidly evolving economic and technological world.

Peter is reusing an existing engine in a physical world where the laws of physics haven’t changed in 15 billion years.

There is absolutely nothing in common between the two of them.

It's about time for the Teddy Roosevelt "man in the arena" quote again. . . . :D :popcorn:

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2021, 15:09 
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Username Protected wrote:
Going against convention can be successful. But Peter’s decision making seems predicated on the idea that going against convention, in and of itself, will result in success, even in areas where history (and physics) proves otherwise.


What Peter's missing is that success in the face of convention requires innovation, often significant. He's not innovating anything.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2021, 15:20 
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Joined: 05/01/14
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Username Protected wrote:
Going against convention can be successful. But Peter’s decision making seems predicated on the idea that going against convention, in and of itself, will result in success, even in areas where history (and physics) proves otherwise.


What Peter's missing is that success in the face of convention requires innovation, often significant. He's not innovating anything.


Your criticism of his lack of innovation means nothing because you are not in the arena!
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