21 Nov 2025, 20:12 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 04 Feb 2021, 14:13 |
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Joined: 03/15/16 Posts: 441 Post Likes: +349 Location: NC
Aircraft: Looking for one
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He can’t pressurize it. He cracked one of the windows when he left the front jacked up one time. That’s another problem he’s going. To get to “fix’ during production.
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Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 04 Feb 2021, 17:09 |
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Joined: 02/28/17 Posts: 1353 Post Likes: +1437 Location: Panama City, FL
Aircraft: Velocity XL-RG
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Username Protected wrote: It runs Jet A. That cuts your fuel bill by 30% at least, depending on where the final performance lines up. That's one thing.
If he can get Lancair IV-PT performance out of it (unlikely) and keep it in his ballpark price, he'll have two more things.
I suspect he'll end up with a Diesel / Jet-A burning pressurized V35 / A36 in terms of speed and payload if someone who knew what they were doing got ahold of this.
The big question marks for me are that redrive and final selling price (aside from fixing the other glaring weight/performance issues).
We shall see. Actually... It runs diesel. Granted, diesel and Jet-A are close, but apparently, Jet-A lacks some lubricity that diesel has. This would shorten the life of the engine which is why he is running the engine on diesel. To burn Jet-A long term, you would need to dump in some additives whenever you fueled. At least that how it was explained to me. Which if true means you just lost a little more payload since you're going to have to carry around whatever the additive is for when you refuel.
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Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 04 Feb 2021, 17:15 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 20752 Post Likes: +26231 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: Granted, diesel and Jet-A are close, but apparently, Jet-A lacks some lubricity that diesel has. This would shorten the life of the engine which is why he is running the engine on diesel. To burn Jet-A long term, you would need to dump in some additives whenever you fueled. Been a number of piston aircraft certified to fly on Jet-A (for example Cessna JT-A and Diamond DA62) and I don't recall they required additives when fueling. Do they? Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 04 Feb 2021, 17:28 |
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Joined: 05/14/19 Posts: 935 Post Likes: +1019 Location: MCW
Aircraft: 7ECA
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Username Protected wrote: Granted, diesel and Jet-A are close, but apparently, Jet-A lacks some lubricity that diesel has. This would shorten the life of the engine which is why he is running the engine on diesel. To burn Jet-A long term, you would need to dump in some additives whenever you fueled. Been a number of piston aircraft certified to fly on Jet-A (for example Cessna JT-A and Diamond DA62) and I don't recall they required additives when fueling. Do they? Mike C.
As far as I know they don't because they were designed to operate on Jet-A. Peter is using a mostly stock Audi diesel engine meant for a car.
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Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 04 Feb 2021, 17:32 |
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Joined: 05/01/14 Posts: 9752 Post Likes: +16685 Location: Операционный офис КГБ
Aircraft: TU-104
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Username Protected wrote: I don't recall they required additives when fueling. Do they?
Mike C. The lubricants are needed for Audi’s high pressure fuel pump, at least if you want it to last. That may not be an issue for a system designed to run jet A, and I would presume Peter could use a different fuel pump if one is available.
_________________ Be kinder than I am. It’s a low bar. Flight suits = superior knowledge
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Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 04 Feb 2021, 17:33 |
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Joined: 04/01/13 Posts: 6260 Post Likes: +6971 Location: Overland Park, KS (KOJC)
Aircraft: 1975 Bonanza F33A
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That's a major bummer. Here is the FlightAware track. Attachment: Screen Shot 2021-02-04 at 3.22.58 PM.png It's clear that he did make the runway, but I never heard him say anything after he told the tower he lost the engine. Tower re-opened the field shortly after he declared and said he's lost the engine so it seems safe to assume he made a reasonable dead stick landing. Glad Peter is Ok. Jack
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Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 04 Feb 2021, 17:38 |
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Joined: 11/03/08 Posts: 16903 Post Likes: +28712 Location: Peachtree City GA / Stoke-On-Trent UK
Aircraft: A33
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Username Protected wrote: Actually... It runs diesel. Granted, diesel and Jet-A are close, but apparently, Jet-A lacks some lubricity that diesel has. This would shorten the life of the engine which is why he is running the engine on diesel. To burn Jet-A long term, you would need to dump in some additives whenever you fueled.
At least that how it was explained to me. Which if true means you just lost a little more payload since you're going to have to carry around whatever the additive is for when you refuel. Hi Don, Not true at all. Whoever told you that is still living in the 1970's
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Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 04 Feb 2021, 23:53 |
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Joined: 02/28/17 Posts: 1353 Post Likes: +1437 Location: Panama City, FL
Aircraft: Velocity XL-RG
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Username Protected wrote: Granted, diesel and Jet-A are close, but apparently, Jet-A lacks some lubricity that diesel has. This would shorten the life of the engine which is why he is running the engine on diesel. To burn Jet-A long term, you would need to dump in some additives whenever you fueled. Been a number of piston aircraft certified to fly on Jet-A (for example Cessna JT-A and Diamond DA62) and I don't recall they required additives when fueling. Do they? Mike C. I was referring to this specific engine. Not piston engines that were built to run on Jet-A.
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Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 05 Feb 2021, 00:36 |
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Joined: 03/22/18 Posts: 3724 Post Likes: +2104 Location: Nashville, TN
Aircraft: Lazarus - a B60 Duke
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The issue with running Jet A in a turbo diesel VW engine is the sulfur. The high sulfur content will plug up the common fuel rail among other things after a bit.
You can run it 50/50 and not hurt it (one guy is closing in on 300k miles and hasn't touched a thing doing just that) but more likely you'll need to tweak the fuel system for Jet A. Probably have to re-work it completely. Doable, but you'll lose fuel economy doing it.
The older diesel trucks from the late 90's and 2000's (Cummins in-line 6) like Jet A just fine. The ones with the big smoke stacks sticking out above the bed belching more sulfur into the air than the dump truck in front of you.
Anybody get an update on Peter after today's flight?
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Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 05 Feb 2021, 01:16 |
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Joined: 12/10/07 Posts: 35970 Post Likes: +14365 Location: Minneapolis, MN (KFCM)
Aircraft: 1970 Baron B55
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Username Protected wrote: He can’t pressurize it. He cracked one of the windows when he left the front jacked up one time. That’s another problem he’s going. To get to “fix’ during production. I doubt he'll ever get pressurization to work at anything more than a couple PSI (good for a 8000 ft cabin at 12,000 ft). Besides that it's very likely he knows nothing about the subject plus the fact that the shape of his cabin is completely wrong for a pressurized vessel leads me to believe that getting up to a useable 5+ PSI cabin pressure differential without adding another 500 lbs of structure simply isn't feasible.
_________________ -lance
It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.
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Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 05 Feb 2021, 04:36 |
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Joined: 03/15/16 Posts: 441 Post Likes: +349 Location: NC
Aircraft: Looking for one
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It will be interesting to see what happened. Those high temperatures he wasn’t worried about may have caught up to him. I’m glad he got back safely to the ground.
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Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 05 Feb 2021, 07:43 |
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Joined: 10/07/18 Posts: 3639 Post Likes: +2596 Company: Retired Location: Columbus, Ohio
Aircraft: Baron 58, Lear 35
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I figure his “rattle” was a piston deconstructing itself because it was not fine with excessive egt temps which knowledgeable people tried to warn Peter about.
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Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die Posted: 05 Feb 2021, 07:44 |
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Joined: 11/03/08 Posts: 16903 Post Likes: +28712 Location: Peachtree City GA / Stoke-On-Trent UK
Aircraft: A33
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Username Protected wrote: The issue with running Jet A in a turbo diesel VW engine is the sulfur. The high sulfur content will plug up the common fuel rail among other things after a bit.
You can run it 50/50 and not hurt it (one guy is closing in on 300k miles and hasn't touched a thing doing just that) but more likely you'll need to tweak the fuel system for Jet A. Probably have to re-work it completely. Doable, but you'll lose fuel economy doing it.
The older diesel trucks from the late 90's and 2000's (Cummins in-line 6) like Jet A just fine. The ones with the big smoke stacks sticking out above the bed belching more sulfur into the air than the dump truck in front of you.
Anybody get an update on Peter after today's flight? Hi Rich, Sulfur is a problem for the aftertreatment, but airplane engines won't have that. The fuel system doesn't care. Most industrial engine makers allow unlimited use on jet fuel.
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