04 Jun 2025, 22:22 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Username Protected
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Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian  Posted: 10 Mar 2023, 00:46 |
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Joined: 03/17/18
Posts: 532
Post Likes: +304
Location: KDAY
Aircraft: BE36
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Will keep enjoying the 36, will start booking stays a few days ahead and a few days after our planned stay at Airbnb's so we can fly in vfr wx, and will see how much usage the family actually gets from the plane. Will reassess in 12 months.
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Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian Posted: 10 Mar 2023, 12:25 |
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Joined: 07/17/15
Posts: 549
Post Likes: +538
Location: KSRQ
Aircraft: C510
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Username Protected wrote: Will keep enjoying the 36, will start booking stays a few days ahead and a few days after our planned stay at Airbnb's so we can fly in vfr wx, and will see how much usage the family actually gets from the plane. Will reassess in 12 months. So did we talk you INTO or OUT OF a Meridian?
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Tony
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Username Protected
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Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian Posted: 10 Mar 2023, 12:27 |
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Joined: 05/23/13
Posts: 7999
Post Likes: +10319
Company: Jet Acquisitions
Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
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Username Protected wrote: Will keep enjoying the 36, will start booking stays a few days ahead and a few days after our planned stay at Airbnb's so we can fly in vfr wx, and will see how much usage the family actually gets from the plane. Will reassess in 12 months. So did we talk you INTO or OUT OF a Meridian?
We should have talked him into a Mustang 
But... I think we just confused him so bad that he said screw it!
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Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian Posted: 10 Mar 2023, 13:11 |
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Joined: 03/17/18
Posts: 532
Post Likes: +304
Location: KDAY
Aircraft: BE36
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Username Protected wrote:
But... I think we just confused him so bad that he said screw it!
More or less.
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Username Protected
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Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian Posted: 10 Mar 2023, 13:12 |
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Joined: 03/17/18
Posts: 532
Post Likes: +304
Location: KDAY
Aircraft: BE36
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Username Protected wrote: So did we talk you INTO or OUT OF a Meridian? Yes?
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Username Protected
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Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian Posted: 10 Mar 2023, 13:37 |
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Joined: 08/05/16
Posts: 3137
Post Likes: +2284
Company: Tack Mobile
Location: KBJC
Aircraft: C441
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Username Protected wrote: The point has probably been made here, however the V is a fuel pig, Mike admits it. Most charter/corporate guys fly the V in the mid 30s at max thrust where fuel burn is ridiculous and speeds are high. That's why some of them say the V is a 1200 nm range plane. This is what gives the V the reputation as a fuel pig, the pilots aren't paying the bills.
A non-pilot acquaintance of mine was commenting that the 300 he flys in is faster than a 441. I checked FlightAware, and his last flight was at FL240. I let him know pilots are paid by the day, not the hour, and how to do the math on those extra 8 knots. They use a different column in the POH than we do.
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Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian Posted: 10 Mar 2023, 13:49 |
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Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 20256
Post Likes: +25393
Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: A non-pilot acquaintance of mine was commenting that the 300 he flys in is faster than a 441. I checked FlightAware, and his last flight was at FL240. I let him know pilots are paid by the day, not the hour, and how to do the math on those extra 8 knots. They use a different column in the POH than we do. I didn't understand much of what you wrote. Sorry. "300" is Phenom 300 jet? It was at FL240 or the 441? Where did "extra 8 knots" come from? Mike C.
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Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian Posted: 10 Mar 2023, 14:20 |
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Joined: 11/07/11
Posts: 815
Post Likes: +463
Location: KBED, KCRE
Aircraft: Phenom 100
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King air 300? Probably not Challenger 300.
Chip-
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Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian Posted: 10 Mar 2023, 15:51 |
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Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 20256
Post Likes: +25393
Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: King air 300? Probably not Challenger 300. King Air 300 makes more sense. A King Air 300 up against a 441 will struggle to be faster. 441 is ~315 KTAS or so with the -10 engines (which almost all 441s have). If you limit each plane to some specific fuel flow, the King Air will be totally embarrassed by the 441. Mike C.
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Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian Posted: 10 Mar 2023, 16:19 |
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Joined: 08/05/16
Posts: 3137
Post Likes: +2284
Company: Tack Mobile
Location: KBJC
Aircraft: C441
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Username Protected wrote: A non-pilot acquaintance of mine was commenting that the 300 he flys in is faster than a 441. I checked FlightAware, and his last flight was at FL240. I let him know pilots are paid by the day, not the hour, and how to do the math on those extra 8 knots. They use a different column in the POH than we do. I didn't understand much of what you wrote. Sorry. "300" is Phenom 300 jet? It was at FL240 or the 441? Where did "extra 8 knots" come from? Mike C.
Sorry, didn't mean to make that a puzzle, to clarify: King Air B300 flying at FL240 was 8 knots faster than a 441 flying at FL340. I let the non-pilot passenger know that he should tell the pilots to fly higher so he doesn't spend so much extra money on gas to go only slightly faster.
The extra headroom of a King Air comes at significant cost, especially at lower altitudes.
Edit: B300 not B200.
Last edited on 10 Mar 2023, 19:13, edited 1 time in total.
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Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian Posted: 10 Mar 2023, 18:44 |
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Joined: 08/16/15
Posts: 3413
Post Likes: +4907
Location: Ogden UT
Aircraft: Piper M600
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Username Protected wrote: But the acquisition is cheaper for a comparably aged airframe. It is an artificial requirement they be the same age. Also, a 560 is way more capable than a Meridian, not even in the same class, as far as range and payload. Mike C.
I would challenge you here. If by more capable you mean being able to go almost anywhere almost any time, the Meridian and especially the M600 is going to smoke the jet. I fly on a lot of days where if I had a jet it would be sitting in the hangar. I do a lot of high, hot contaminated and short runways. Many days when I am doing my milk runs the only birds flying are turboprops with the airliners and biz jet waiting for better runway reports. Jets are fast, and good on long trips, but for mixed use flying, there are a lot of trips that a jet is nowhere near optimized. Probably for most trips with typical GA flying of under 300 nm. I can land and taxi on runways and taxiways with poor to nil braking action, and can get into and out of almost any paved runway in the US regardless of elevation, length, time of day/temperature and contaminated status. Although the contaminated part has some caveats.
These conditions with glaze ice are not uncommon on my morning commutes. Make pretty pictures though. 
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Chuck Ivester
Piper M600
Ogden UT
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Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian Posted: 10 Mar 2023, 19:21 |
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Joined: 08/05/16
Posts: 3137
Post Likes: +2284
Company: Tack Mobile
Location: KBJC
Aircraft: C441
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Username Protected wrote: It is an artificial requirement they be the same age. Also, a 560 is way more capable than a Meridian, not even in the same class, as far as range and payload.
Mike C. I would challenge you here. If by more capable you mean being able to go almost anywhere almost any time, the Meridian and especially the M600 is going to smoke the jet.
First of all, I love how much you love your plane. That said, a V with a cabin equally loaded, especially in the winter, I suspect is going to do pretty well on a 300nm trip.
What is your landing distance in say Denver (6,000ft) at 10C? Call it 500nm fuel on board and 500lbs in the cabin.
441 ground roll is about 1,000 ft, no wind.
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Username Protected
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Post subject: Re: Talk me into / out of a Meridian Posted: 10 Mar 2023, 20:00 |
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Joined: 05/23/13
Posts: 7999
Post Likes: +10319
Company: Jet Acquisitions
Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
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Now we're comparing single engine Pipers to Citation 560's... dang!
The Citation V is so fast, carries such a load, pretty hard to compare.
I have a great client and friend who is in a Citation Ultra we acquired for him a few years ago, it replaced a really nice CJ1 that we got him two years before. He's pretty frugal and takes a lot of really short trips, like 250nm down to the beach, so I was worried about the increase in fuel burn...
After he had operated the Ultra for a few months, I asked him about it. His response "you were right, it burns more gas, but it's still less fuel than making two trips in the CJ1 to get my whole group to Florida!"
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