Perhaps, but waiting to get that extra training time until the onset of an emergency is absolutely impossible to obtain. Which is time better spent, with or without? Furthermore, a 2-3 day annual recurrent is the absolute minimum a pilot of a high performance airplane should get, whether TP or jet. There's really no difference. Having logged significant time before and after a type rating, training time is no longer a factor in evaluating airplanes. What once was, no longer is.

We need to see more data on this nose cowling.
Im hearing you get 18 kts more speed but at FL280 which is not the PC12 fastest speed so it wont give you that much at FL200-240 were everyone fly these.





Depends on OAT. There's a 20 knot swing between a hot day and a cold day.

I was 261TAS today at FL260 over Florida. It was -19C at FL260. In the winter I've seen 280+ at FL260.

Mine is a 2008 Model. The 2016's are 5 knots faster than mine. The NGX's are 5 knots faster than the 2016's. The airframes have been cleaned up a bit since they built mine.

They are quoting 290 tas at FL220[/quote]

That's pretty low. What's the speed at that altitude now? What is real world cruise speed now? Any idea what it will really be? They never account for things like radar pods in these marketing numbers.[/quote]

In the last year I’ve flown about 30 different PC12s, for almost 1000 hours. From the /47 legacy to the brand new 2019 NGs. The legacies true out at 255-260. The 4 blade NGs 265-270. The brand new 5 blades, 265-272 (the 5 blades climb much better though, noticeably better too. They also haul below 12,000’). The best speeds are FL190-230. I’ve talk to others who say they’ve gotten 280 TAS in level flight, I’ve yet to see it even close though.

Yes and no. Jason has made the excellent point, that I have thought about a lot, which is that the extra training time is virtually impossible to make up. People talk about more gas as a speed mod and 2 weeks initial and 4-5 days recurrent every year is about the biggest drag you can put on an airplane.

I may move to a jet some day. But if I do it won't be to save time in the overall sense but because I want the illusion of saving time and because I just want to.

You're not talking about the same thing we're talking about.

Spending 10 days at Simcom doing initial CJ3 training is TIME I don't need to spend if I never buy a CJ3.

100%. time is hard to get back.

That’s not an accurate statement and as has been posted on BT many times you can transition to the Citation CJ or 500 series with getting a simple SIC type rating consisting of limited ground work and three take off and landings which take maybe an hour with your local CFI in a Citation.

Once you have your SIC type rating in hand you walk into nearly any of the sim schools with your SIC type rating in hand and you are simply upgrading from SIC to PIC which is now only 5 days and not 10 days or 240 hrs as was stated. Your recurrent are 2.5 days and not 5 days.

Gary

That’s the first I’ve ever heard that. What will my insurance guy say?

I'm all ears too. I got my Citation 500 SIC last spring and have logged 100 hours or so since then.

There have been hours of discussion about how to shortcut training. Yes, it can be done with some models at some schools. However, all you're accomplishing is shortcutting the training. It promotes the idea that training is a waste. Probably not the best idea out there.

If you crash your jet with people on board you’re gonna make the news as we see all the time. The last thing you want is the story coming out how you shortcut the training.

Plus I don’t see my insurance guy being on board. He’s been very clear about the training that would be expected for me to have any kind of decent coverage.

There have been hours of discussion about how to shortcut training. Yes, it can be done with some models at some schools. However, all you're accomplishing is shortcutting the training. It promotes the idea that training is a waste. Probably not the best idea out there.

Bingo. Hit the nail on the head with both statements. Insurance is really tightening up with the rash of accidents in the past couple years. Training shortcuts are going to become fewer.

Ins co's and Simcom/Flight Safety are going to remove the ability to do in aircraft if we let them.



Now fellas, this is strictly my opinion on the PC!2, have not done any other airplane with them.

I just wrote a letter to that very tune. I have done Simcom and Flight Safety. They check the box, but NO WAY in hell are they anywhere close to in airplane. When I get done with a 2/3 day workout from either Shane or Dave in the actual airplane, I feel like I can fly by flapping my hands.

At the sim schools, the knowledge is germane and helpful to folks who are brand new to the airplane. For folks who fly it 300 hrs a year, then nope.

Frankly the actual sims are not even close to the airplane. Even the level D sim is very touchy and nothing like the airplane. Night time, in the snow, engine out, etc etc. is fine and dandy in the sim from an avionics perspective but it does not mirror the flight controls of the airplane i fly.

If insurance requires me to go to Simcom/Flight Safety I'm gonna do the following.....head to the cheapest and shortest...then I'm gonna spend time with Dave or Shane or Jeremy and get my ass handed to me in the airplane.

Bingo. Hit the nail on the head with both statements. Insurance is really tightening up with the rash of accidents in the past couple years. Training shortcuts are going to become fewer.