With King Airs I only use the brakes during the run-up, or to stop (and use Tom Clements' technique to slow down during taxi).

In the Aerostar it's a little more complicated because there is no Beta or feathering. Still, brakes should be used at a minimum to avoid brakes overheating.

That's the correct technique, at least in any turboprop aircraft I fly

KNOW BEFORE YOU GO !

Thank you very much. It was my initial type rating and I was doing first landings with a Piaggio factory pilot in the right hand seat. I also wish he told me the brakes are cr^H^H small.

My previous plane was a Learjet. Landing gear from a Challenger, which is twice the mass, hence no concern with braking.

I did not intend for this incident to eclipse the overall Piaggio experience, which is of limited parts at high prices, failing often. This is my fifth aircraft in 18 years of flying, so I can compare a little.

Which Lear? I know the 60 is notorious for undersized brakes.

Lear 75

‘ I understand Piaggio owners here may not want horror stories visible between sales ads. I like a lot about the plane myself.’

I think this thread has actually been quite honest in quirks and issues with the planes. I wish all types had this sort of thread.

I think the market value of these planes will be a function of what happens with parent co vs what is handful of owner operators report.

I owned a Malibu, an MU2 and a Piaggio. If it were not for forums I am not sure I would have ever looked at any of them. Every issue I have encountered with each of the planes I was aware of bc of online communities.

I love the reports like the brakes overheating. I had owned the plane for years and while I avoided heavy braking for other reasons (easy to flat spot), I didn’t know about how max braking could impact.

Interesting side note - there is a Piaggio owner who had a similar issue with a new Honda jet he owned and was doing in aircraft training in.

Speaking of HondaJet. If my eye ever wanders...it's usually that way. Ran across a couple HJ YouTube video's last night. Got me looking. There is one based in Columbus. I looked at some of their flights to SW FL. I've done similar flights this year but they were to the east coast. Same distance. My block times were same as HJ. I was really surprised.

Dang..have been on BT so long, I remember when Crandall was "fighting" with HJ test pilots trying to take pictures...years before it was certified...

haha, I remember that. He was wearing his Pilatus shoes! I miss JC.

It was my initial type rating and I was doing first landings with a Piaggio factory pilot in the right hand seat.

How can there be more than 3000 post about an airplane type that is seldom seen and has the ramp appeal of a Catfish?

Tomasz,

I think what Piaggio owners want here, as well as pro pilots, is good, accurate information.

You've given a data point which is useful. But I think there are more data points which are different and the context is important. Any airplane can have failures from poor technique, improper operation or bad luck. What is important to understand, as an operator, pilot or potential owner, is what is typical.

I never feared using the brakes. And do not now. And, as I pointed out, repeated use in a short period of time, followed by hard braking for a self induced "emergency" resulted in no problem at all.

Back to operating technique. All airplanes are different and require slightly different flying approaches. I fly a dozen different airplanes routinely and each must be thoughtfully flown - though in the end they are airplanes. Hammering the brakes in an antique biplane, for example, might be necessary in an emergency - though you are practically guaranteed to end up on your back. Brakes are a tool. The proper use of the tool is important. In the Piaggio the carbon ceramics are very effective but they are expensive. Brakes are to be used aggressively in an emergency as you were taught in the sim. But they aren't to be used that way routinely. If a pilot routinely hammered the brakes in my airplane, instead of using the proper technique I outlined, I'd be very upset. And have a new pilot. Pilots, as well as owners, should be cognizant of, and respectful of, costs of operation. Those that are not either have money to burn or difficult careers.

Braking as hard and as long as you want is relative to airframe. For example, a jet without reverse thrust is more dependent on brakes than a turbo prop with Beta or a jet with reversers. But, indiscriminate use of any tool drives costs up and compromises safety. Both are frowned upon. I've flown, once, with a number of "ham fisted" pilots who use airplane controls (all of them) aggressively when it wasn't required.

The brakes are expensive to replace as you have pointed out - though generally operators are only replacing/overhauling brakes not wheels, etc. at the same time. So, your expense is not only unusual - but difficult to understand. That's why I believe another poster asked for details on the costs.

In sum, what we need here is to understand a) what the plane costs to operate under normal circumstances b) what its capabilities are c) what proper operational technique is an d) unusual problems and their causes (you've helped here).

Thank you.

It seems that Piaggio has been acquired by Baykar Makina, a Turkish UAV mfgr:

https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/t ... 024-12-27/

They look kind of odd at first Paul, but they kinda Grow on Ya

Way more stylish than a Starship

Just hope that Baykar will continue with the [passenger] Avanti Evo, and not only produce the larger, heavier, pilotless and more lucrative(?) P.1HH Hammerhead.

https://p1hh.piaggioaerospace.it/

Any inside information you can share Daniele?

I am pleased to hear that Piaggio has a new owner and will pray that the passenger P.180 variant will continue in production.