Matt,

I can't let someone read this thread and think that your experience was typical. In 4 years neither my partner nor I missed a scheduled flight (and between us that was nearly every week) due to a maintenance failure, part unavailability or lack of Piaggio (or service center) support (nor did we have to fly with items inop either). In fact the opposite was the case. In my recollection we never missed a flight for any reason. We had generally excellent Piaggio support, good service center support and never had even an AOG event that took more than an hour or two to resolve.

In contrast with both my TBM, which was a relatively low time airframe, backed by an excellent, financially successful manufacturer, and my Cirrus before that (which was brand new and backed by another successful, outstanding customer service oriented company) I had AOG issues lasting days or weeks, lack of parts availability, etc several times in similar time periods with both airplanes. Not casting aspersion on those two companies, as I always felt they, and their service centers were trying hard to take care of me, but just making the point that my Piaggio experience, over 4 years and 1,000 hours, was better than those two, generally excellent, experiences.

Matt W has mentioned a few times, here and elsewhere, that he struggled with his airframe. I’m not sure the history of his bird nor who he used to maintain it.

I can relate my experience after almost 4 years of ownership and 500+ hours.

The plane flys inspection to inspection (generally one year) without issue. I reviewed my logs and found only one non-scheduled trip to maintenance (early in ownership).

Most memorable issues:

- Flaps would not cycle properly away from home. Pulled training manual, found breaker in baggage compartment cycled and no issues since.
- Engines would not start away from home a couple months ago. Connected APU and all was good. Replaced battery on return
- First two “annuals” were “normal”. This last one was expensive, and had to source some hard to find parts. Hard to find meant “had to make a couple phone calls and decisions on best route forward”. This is just not atypical of aircraft ownership, including owners of new/nearly new types.

Intercontinental Jet Service in Tulsa does all our work. I built a relationship with them during my MU-2 ownership. They are great, capable people. We talk a lot less now than we did with the MU-2.

A friend flys a Phenom 300. We have similar maintenance experiences. My wife and I took a ride in a 300 and I was afraid she’d want one. After the trip I asked her what she thought. “I like ours a lot better….”

Very satisfied with the Piaggio. If there was a jet with similar size/capability/performance that was 2x cost maybe I’d consider it. But from what I can see it’s a 3x-5x difference. I think I’ll stick with “my little prop job”

Wish Matt W well with the PC24. That’s an awesome plane and can’t imagine it won’t be well supported by Pilatus.

Im one year into P180 ownership. A 2019 Evo. During one year I had:

- carbon brake overheat due to two subsequent landings with braking, Piaggio selling me a new wheel for 85k EUR
- TCAS fail - borrowed a unit from another aircraft, that one is down for longer due parts
- HTTA fix, 5 year checks, props overhaul
- AC motor replace
- AC belt snap
- Brake change change to steel
- HYD pump replace, and several other items that I forgot

All in all, about three months spent in service centers. 680k EUR net for 140 hours of flying. That is 5k per hour. A Challenger budget :-)

Can you explain what happened to the brakes? How did you get to 680K EUR?

The brakes are small, and if used twice without cooling, they overheat. The paint turns brown, and the thermal fuse in the wheel pops. The wheel can be overhauled, while the brake assembly is scrap, because the housing metal hardness is lost.

As for the running cost, I have the plane in a dedicated company with accounting, so I have an easy overview. Of the total, 350 was paid to my servicer center. The rest is other expenses. Fuel, insurance, handling, navigation fees, type rating and so on. Some spare parts too.

I am a “drop the keys, fix everything” owner and not yet to $300k in service in almost 4 years of ownership/500 hours.

I do have a windshield on order and likely will convert brakes, so will be there soon.

The higher altitude you use AC, greater wear on AC motor. I try to turn mine off at 14k, always by 16k. Also, have been told don’t use for more than 30 minutes on the ground.

Just curious how you use the brakes? I use them for runup. On landing I hardly use at all. Land on speed, power out, condition levers to ground idle, steering on about 45, tap the brakes for turnoff. Tap them to stop. No issues.

I did about 10 hours of in plane training before going to FS. In the beginning we did a bunch of full stop, taxi back, landings. Several sessions of 5-6 in a row (it was fun how fast things happen in the pattern at P180 speeds!). Never a brake issue. Once, during one of those sessions I was taking off, for some reason I decided to abort (I don't remember why) and hammered the brakes. It was a close run thing getting stopped but they worked. Later I learned I should have gone but my point is the brakes worked fine and this was after several landings in a row. At almost 2,000 hours the brakes are about halfway to overhaul.

Are the brakes different in an Evo or is it technique?

It was during my initial type rating at Piaggio in Genoa. I had no idea the brakes were crap, and my instructor was PIC. One could argue he was responsible. I now avoid using them at all, but am on steel now and these supposedly don't suffer thermal runaway like the carbon ones do. Of the Piaggio senior pilots present there all told me they burned a brake at least once sometime in their career.

So, the brakes aren’t crap. It is technique.

My experience is very good and similar to Tony’s.
550 hours in 4 years.
I did miss trim motor on my minimal pre buy which cost ~70.
I bought plane end of year with a massive discount to what price should have been.

Previous owner had spent a good sum 8 months prior overhauling gear and props and brakes amount other things and I took the chance not much else was missed.

I have never been AOG and annual expenses rival my Aerostar other than training and insurance which are reasonable.

Items fixed/replaced from my very intentionally Swiss cheese memory:

Door seal
Brake gear motor
Starter generators
LAV motor
ComII
Ship Battery.
Pretty sure I am leaving out something that cost 2-3k

Condition on purchase matters.

One buys a 1994 serial number 17 neglected Avanti-Air bird I would expect to pour AMUs into it for some time followed by flying it a bit and much more down time followed by many more AMUs fixing more stuff.

I took a gamble hoping mine would not cost much more to fly than a King Air 200.

Still grinN

I am 5 years and closing in on 1000 hours. Other than D check taking a month longer than planned, the plane has performed fairly flawlessly. All the issues I have had have been annoying tiny things that have nothing to do with Piaggio. Good example was a small O2 leak which was a tank regulator and an ACM oil leak which ended up being an O ring. Both parts are used in King Airs.

I looked hard at CJ3s. They all spend more days in the shop than my plane does if flown amount I fly (200 hours). If you look at older ones like I was they have the same annoying issues in their logs. They cost about 40% more to run and capital cost is about 4x. They are easier to get parts for and more people can work on them. I sense if you were flying a plane 500 hours per year, a cj3 might be more reliable and its inspection schedule works well as time goes higher. 200 hours is the sweet spot for Piaggio downtime.

Biggest single expense so far was a windshield, I estimated I would get 5 years out of it and got 4, and I had to comply with an AD that every other plane in the fleet had done years ago and my prior owners had not. That stung bc it was a ton of labor.

Even the dreaded D check didn’t really seem that bad. I talk to PC12 and KA350 guys who all spend way more than I do flying.

Definitely not ‘cheap’ but for capability it’s tough to beat. All these turbine planes have gotcha years. I have met people with good and bad experiences on every airframe. YMMV as they say!


I wish fleet was bigger and I didn’t have to travel for maintenance. I can get it done locally but it’s pricey. I am hoping new owner puts some effort into to the US market. It’s a better plane than many.

I'm two weeks short of two years in my plane, and have been AOG once with a starter issue that took two days to resolve. This compares favorably to my six months in the Phenom 300, where I was AOG once in that period.

Flying to Tulsa for major maintenance is a bit of a drag, but maintenance cost there is quite reasonable as compared to Bay Area prices, so it kind of evens out.

I moved from an aircraft where I could brake as hard and long as I wanted in any conditions. The brake overheat light never came on during the period I flew it. I was encouraged in the sim to brake hard after emergency landings. That was because the brakes were good.

The technique I hear from Piaggio pilots is to avoid using the brakes. Is it because they're so good? I'd say it's a safety concern.

I understand Piaggio owners here may not want horror stories visible between sales ads. I like a lot about the plane myself. Let's hope it was bad luck in the first year only

I moved from an aircraft where I could brake as hard and long as I wanted in any conditions. The brake overheat light never came on during the period I flew it. I was encouraged in the sim to brake hard after emergency landings. That was because the brakes were good.

The technique I hear from Piaggio pilots is to avoid using the brakes. Is it because they're so good? I'd say it's a safety concern.

I understand Piaggio owners here may not want horror stories visible between sales ads. I like a lot about the plane myself. Let's hope it was bad luck in the first year only