I saw a runway, us northern guys are used to see white runways !




Nope,

I could not see the runway in the video, nor were the landing lights light up like a Christmas tree to indicate/visualize where the runway was............

from the video it looks like a white out.............that's a divert and grab a coffee and wait, especially in mountain regions.

This is KSAW so I don't know weather patterns. Even your camera picture shows very poor runway lighting.

I'm a pansy, I would not go in there in those conditions with Bob Hoover in the right or left seat.....

Looked good to me. Flown many approaches to minimums being based out of ORD for a year. Well done guys. This is how it’s done. Configured, on speed, and stabilized. Great Job guys.

I have seen similar "runways". Also broke out to one that had not been plowed and the lights were buried... Just a big open field, diverted to Toledo.



I have been thinking about that comment. If they saw the runway lights, and knew the snow was only a couple of inches deep, how is that whiteout any different from a low vis approach at night where it is all dark except for the approach and runway lights ? It is still a void, just dark instead of light.

In a white out there's very little contrast with the lights so much easier to be disoriented and maybe lose track of the lights and the visual reference you need.

But if you have a solid lock on the lights then I agree.

Wow! New respect for you guys. Having flown with Mark, I would trust his judgement 100%.
Jesse, you are the man!

In a plane that goes around on one better than a bonanza does on its only one!

I sure think the straight wing citations have to be one of the safest owner flown multi engine turbines there is. Flown by a couple guys that take their flying even more seriously than I do!

I saw the video and looked at the picture, dem lights were hard to see. If you saw that any different, then you were looking at a different video.

I agree that the approach is straight in, that it is fairly flat and a go around in a citation is far easier than in a piston, twin or SETP.

I agree with Mark H, Mark B and Jesse J that you all see runways where I see nothing but a white powered field. We get snow in tRide (although not much so far), so I know what it looks like.

I just could not see the runways lights that well..........that adds a level of difficulty.......two person crew helps, with one on instruments and the other watching the field...........which is what happened here...........

Still a divert IMHO.

Not arguing... I said "If" they saw the lights. I believe the live view is probably better than the camera. They are hard to see on the video.

Question about configuring landing flaps once you had the runway environment in sight and continuing to 100 Ft. It seems to me like that is not the time to be making configuration changes. On an approach to minimums, we are always fully configured for landing at the FAF so no changes have to take place after that. This is an Embraer Legacy though. Interested in your thoughts on this and why you do it that way. Maybe that's how all Citations do it? Just curious.

+1.....the live view was probably much better than the videos. I've gone back and watched both the 360* and the behind the pilots view multiple times, and still never saw the rabbits.

Excellent catch. We should have been landing flaps at 1000 agl. I was cheating thinking was going around. Didn’t want all that drag if we were going around anyway. My bad. AC91-79A

What was Vref and which flap setting was it computed for?

Mike C.

I can’t remember. I want to say 101 but we will have to wait on Mark. I maintained +10 until landing assured and fully configured.

I think we calculated 3,900’ required. With 12,000’+ it was all about keeping it straight going easy on TRs and brakes for me.

My numbers could be off, but I definitely maintained +10. You can probably hear Mark confirm that in the vid.

That was going to be my next question.

I'd love to see a full end to end computation of that number given your inputs of weight, winds, altitude, temperature, flap setting, and runway condition.

Mike C.

What is interesting is how much the conditions changed from IAF to landing.

I wasn’t concerned knowing how much room we had. I unlocked the TRs but didn’t apply them as I could see we were decelerating smoothly and I was most interested in maintaining directional control.

I believe I saw the 7k remaining sign where we did the 180. Those signs are invaluable in these conditions. They gave me all I needed to know regarding braking and TR requirements.