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21 Dec 2025, 16:29 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 15 Dec 2020, 10:50 
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Username Protected wrote:
Dreams are good, and all should follow them.
For me the issue is when you start taking money from people. You are not a dreamer anymore, you become a con artist.

Seems like your two statements here might disagree with each other or at least ignore business norms, given that reportedly 75% of venture-backed startups fail.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 15 Dec 2020, 11:14 
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Username Protected wrote:
Dreams are good, and all should follow them.
For me the issue is when you start taking money from people. You are not a dreamer anymore, you become a con artist.

Seems like your two statements here might disagree with each other or at least ignore business norms, given that reportedly 75% of venture-backed startups fail.


Plenty of startups out there that fail, for one reason or another. But all of them had potential to success... The issue for me is when the original claims are not possibly attainable and you are reaching capital for a finished product.
Nothing wrong on throwing money at RnD for a pipe dream... Something always comes out of those. In this case, there were no hope of getting those numbers in this world. We all knew that.
The claims he had were insane... And was advertising it all the way until 2 weeks ago... That is my issue.
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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 15 Dec 2020, 11:57 
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....and for the next project...
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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 15 Dec 2020, 14:34 
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Username Protected wrote:
Hi Don,

jet fuel, kerosene, diesel fuel. Same stuff with varying density and a few additives. If he's burning diesel it's to get more power to limp around the pattern. The power you get from a diesel engine is proportional to fuel density - you inject fuel based on volume per injection duration so higher density = more fuel mass injected.


I was curious about this and asked around. What I was told (some of those were in the refining business) is that Jet-A has more... lubricity than automotive diesel. Theilert made a number of modifications to get their engines to run Jet-A and have a chance at TBO.

The takeaway was that a street diesel will burn Jet-A. No question. But without some additional lubricants, it won't run nearly as long as it would have running diesel fuel.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 15 Dec 2020, 14:44 
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Username Protected wrote:
The guy did design, build and fly an airplane. Few of us can say we did.
I expect he has a program in mind to get the weight down. And improvements over current systems.
I do not think it impossible to evolve into a 200 kt airplane with diesel economy. I applaud the guy and hope XRaptor II becomes a viable machine.


...he could add a second engine! The Velocity V-Twin XL is a gorgeous plane!


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 15 Dec 2020, 16:20 
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Joined: 04/26/13
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Username Protected wrote:
Plenty of startups out there that fail, for one reason or another. But all of them had potential to success... The issue for me is when the original claims are not possibly attainable and you are reaching capital for a finished product.
Nothing wrong on throwing money at RnD for a pipe dream... Something always comes out of those. In this case, there were no hope of getting those numbers in this world. We all knew that.

So in Peter's case we have what appears to be a dreamer with little aeronautical engineering knowledge, but some good woodshed fabricating and jerry-rigging skills. What if he, until recently, actually believed the numbers that he had posted? He wouldn't be a con artist if he really thought he might be able to deliver on or near those promises. Absurd you say? Maybe to you and me, but to someone without the technical knowledge of why it won't work we just see barriers put in place by big corporations that are too tied up in red tape to produce an out-of-the-box design that breaks those barriers. That may well be Peter. When the first flights came in he refunded deposits and took down the escrow. That doesn't sound like a con man to me, it sounds like a dreamer with a lot of integrity.

As to venture capital, where does the lender's responsibility come into play? Where is due diligence expected? If you don't know anything about aeronautics and are about to put a five figure deposit on some paper airplane, would you not research the claims and credentials of the builders? If it fails, who's fault is it that you lost your money? Heck, you can buy stocks that will go to zero. "All investments, especially venture capital, are speculative in nature and involve substantial risk of loss."

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 15 Dec 2020, 16:45 
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John

I agree. And I don’t think Peter is a con man. I sure have never said that and I don’t see people saying that, especially since he offered to pay back deposits. I think he has proven to be honest and a good guy. And I also agree that he did believe the original claims when he made them. He may have realized they are not achievable now but I don’t think he has admitted that.

Mike.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 15 Dec 2020, 22:50 
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It’s not a lie if you believe it. George Costanza

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 16 Dec 2020, 00:15 
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Username Protected wrote:
Rocky

I guess that’s my point. Why allow the claims of 300 knots stay out there. If he said it was 200 knots and burns JetA for $250k it would be great and way easier to get behind.

But you are right he has accomplished a lot, too bad it’s overshadowed by ridiculous performance claims.

Mike

It is not out there currently. He isn't taking any deposits and has removed all specs and performance claims from the website a while ago.


This link is absolutely still live on his website and from any google search relating to its specs:

http://www.raptor-aircraft.com/specs.html
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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 16 Dec 2020, 00:20 
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Joined: 01/23/13
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There's "live" and then there's "live." Apparently he's as good a webmaster as he is an aerospace engineer.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 17 Dec 2020, 17:11 
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After watching this last video it is flying for sure but still does not seem to be flying right. The two times you can see his hands on the stick it seems like he is having to try really hard and apply lots of pressure to move the plane. His comments about the rudders are concerning as well. But he was still talking about getting out west so they can get production underway :scratch:


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 17 Dec 2020, 17:56 
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I'm baffled by the idea that he's drooping the ailerons so that they're in the correct position during flight, and that the first bit of rudder pedal travel just takes the slack out of the system.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 17 Dec 2020, 20:08 
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Username Protected wrote:
I'm baffled by the idea that he's drooping the ailerons so that they're in the correct position during flight, and that the first bit of rudder pedal travel just takes the slack out of the system.


As the wings flex with supporting the weight of the aircraft, the ailerons move? Not shocked. Could be impacting the rudders as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 17 Dec 2020, 20:21 
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Username Protected wrote:
I'm baffled by the idea that he's drooping the ailerons so that they're in the correct position during flight, and that the first bit of rudder pedal travel just takes the slack out of the system.


As the wings flex with supporting the weight of the aircraft, the ailerons move? Not shocked. Could be impacting the rudders as well.

Lears have the ailerons drooped about .5” sitting static. Maybe Peter heard that and figured since the Raptor will be nearly the same speed as a Lear, it should have drooped ailerons, too!
I believe the ailerons are being pushed up by the high pressure air below the wing because the aileron cables have way too little tension.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 17 Dec 2020, 20:43 
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Why relocate to CA for mfg? I am having difficulty imagining Peter working with anyone (with experience/skills).

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