Except you want to heat the wings while on the runway before departing into icing conditions.

Fairly similar with the Mustang. At V2, you're stepping hard for rudder authority. I can imagine with the thrust of a CJ4 you need all the rudder you can get.

One of the good things I learned at SimCom on the Turbo Commander was to basically don't do anything until 1000ft except fly. I came from piston think - was racing to identify and shut one down (with the predictable result of shutting the wrong one down after a 300ft engine failure..).

The TC's have enough power to handle it, so taking your time and doing it right was a useful lesson for me being new to turbines. Seems that's the same recommendation to use in jets as well (from what I can read here).

Do you wait till 1000' to up the gear?

No, gear and flap comes up. But no shutdown or feathering.

Welp this is a bit baffling. Turns out the "climb to 1500 feet" rule only applies to V1 cuts. Normal takoffs and missed approaches including single engine misses are flaps up & Vref +15 above 400 feet vs 1500. Uhhh. OK. That's easy.

Why not a uniform process?

The Sims.

Andrew Vann mentioned "weird certification process".

I just got back from M2 recurrent at FSI ICT. For the first time, I was getting hammered for going to work at 400 instead of 1500. Didn't remember that from my 525 type, OR last year's recurrent...it's always been 400 for me.

It turns out that the 525's certification date being decades after the 500's is at the root of the difference. I disregarded the root issues of the minutiae as something I could look up to win a future bet, and filed the whole thing away under:

"Just fly the ^&%$#(& airplane"

Which I already had memorized.

For you following along....yesterday was a dry run of the check ride. Same exact checkride as SIMCOM in the 500 series. Same airport (JFK) approaches 4R VOR/ILS/RNAV and CTL 31R

After the session I hung out with Bter Bob DeLong. Great guy/great airplane (Premier) / great dinner.

Then home around 10:30 and built the attached which lists what I will be doing in the check ride step by step. Helps me mentally focus and practice.

Pardon the typos and short hand. It ain't perfect but it gives sense of the ride and the flow.

400ft is the minimum altitude for the second segment climb, 1500ft is the max altitude.

After 400ft you should be thinking about lateral nav and what altitude you are climbing to

Not everybody uses 1500ft to accelerate, but everybody should be between 400ft and 1500ft. I like 1000ft, 400ft seems way too low.

It matters because you can follow the climb gradients in the AFM to decide what SID works for you. Or really what obstruction will be a problem if you had an engine failure.

During a Normal TO you can both climb and accelerate nicely and TERPS protection works on a normal departure. You wont always get terps protection when OEI. It’s on you unless of course there is engine failure takeoff procedure for your runway.

I guess i am missing the logic on cleaning up during a single engine miss at 400ft? That makes no sense. I agree standardizing all profiles makes sense

Great company, conversation and dinner last night. Let’s be sure to meet up in Oshkosh. Looking at your list for engine fire it might be backwards. You activate/discharge the fire bottle then go to idle cut off? In the Premier you make sure you go to idle cutoff first, firewall valve and then activate the bottle. Basically kill the fuel first then work on the fire. Everybody does it wrong in the sim at least once, me included...OK maybe more than once. Or maybe it’s just a different system. Hope to hear the good news soon!

I think you have the engine fire drill down correctly Bob. It's pretty universal:

Throttle - Idle
Start Lever - Cut Off
Fire Handle - Pull
Fire Bottle- Discharge

There is an exception for some engines that rely on pneumatics for engine start with a fire on the ground at start up, a tail pipe fire. You wouldn't want to pull the fire handle because that cuts off pneumatics and they are needed to motor the engine after the fuel is cut off to put out the fire. I watched a new captain pull the fire handle for a tail pipe fire, and his next move was to call for the fire trucks.

I'd be interested to see what they are teaching about fire warnings, and the procedures. Some warnings, a lot of them ? , are false due to a fault in the detection loop. Some warnings are bleed air leaks with no fire. We had a means of testing the fire warning system after it made a fire warning to see if the system was functioning correctly, but I don't know if the Citation has that. Treating every fire warning like it is real doesn't work because you could end up shutting down are perfectly normal engine.

Mark has it correct for CJ's.

Pressing the ENG FIRE switch cuts off fuel:

Except on Citations it seems.

Ok, so going to idle cutoff is really redundant at that point. Fuel and hydraulics are already cut off. It’s really the same setup in the Premier and basically the same engine just a different procedure. I wonder what the design philosophy was between the different procedures since they both accomplish the same end result. I will try to remember to ask Flightsafety when I go next month.