why do you count depreciation but not cost of capital? the 2.5m difference between your NG and a nice CJ3 costs you 200k a year in lost investment income. Also, is the 1m CJ3 going to depreciate to $0 in 5 years? More likely your Pilatus will start to rapidly depreciate now that it is more than 10 years old.

Because there are no guaranteed returns on capital without risk. Your investment could very well lose more $$ than an airplane costs.

Owning an airplane IS a huge return in life.

Depreciation is flat out money "evaporated". It's gone. Depreciation is the number 1 reason I haven't moved to the jet.

Even legacy PC12's older than mine are holding value. So 10 years is meaningless.

I have ran the numbers for our operation and running a jet is at least double the cost vs the PC12. Most of our trips are under 500nm so that’s a factor. If we were doing 1200nm trips all the time, the difference might be less.

And I’m with Jason on the depreciation. If you buy a newer jet that has lower operational cost, they depreciate fast and its the hidden in your total ownership costs. The good economy might help demand, but there are a lot of new jets hitting the market with not many buyers. These companies don’t care about preserving values of used aircraft; sell the new jets as fast as they can.

I have been compiling tons of small jet data as of late. I can’t even come close to seeing how you can run one as cheap as a turboprop. For the same miles, the closest I can get is about 1.5 what I run the MU2 for, though 2x seems a lot more likely.

Pc12 is pretty cheap on a per mile basis. I don’t see how you ever get close to that with a jet. The Williams jets are fuel efficient but the engine costs seem to negate some of that savings over the long term.

Chip, the information that you are providing from the software that you are using is incorrect. My insurance is less than 12k per year. My hot section cost less than $7,000. My annual maintenance at Epps for 450 hours last year was about $45,000. That included a brand new air conditioning unit, and other little items that I knew would need to get corrected. I knew this when I bought the airplane. Norm's experience on the PC-12 is incorrect. If he thinks he can get CJ maintenance at two-thirds of cost of what he's getting an EPS, he's absolutely crazy. I know Norm personally from the old days, he's crazy anyway.

Just like with any other airplane you need to get involved in the maintenance if you don't want to spend a fortune. I speak with Greg on a regular basis, and I believe Epps to be one of the most fairest and best facilities for PC twelves in the country. there is no way that Norm is getting CJ maintenance that's worth anything for 2/3 the cost of the price that Epps is charging for maintenance.

Ask John about the single fix to his CJ2 that cost north Norm's annual.

As to Adam Silverthornes comments about the CJ3 being only $1mm, if he can buy a CJ3 for $1mm I'll take 5,000 of them.

Did I say CJ3? The 1m plane is the Citation III. It's pretty damn nice though I'm not paying the billz...

California backpedal

I like the Encore. Jumps off the runway and climbs at 5000 fpm. You have to pull the throttles back or you break 250 kts in the climb before you hit 10k. Sweet airplane.

Michael, when it comes to cost, we have to use averages. You are coming in WAY below average. Good job!

I just put a CJ1 through inspections, total bill less than $12k... but I can’t claim $12k per year is what maintenance cost on a CJ1... most CJ3 guys will see some $20k years... but that is below average.

It’s is becoming clear that operators of TBM’s and PC12’s seem to report wildly different operating cost.

My PC12 client has a flap issue... if he has to do the actuators it will be $44k OUCH!

I'm sure there are just as many, if not more items on the cj3...... Markets for airplanes are shrewd...... CJ 3 is double the operating cost per mile in all my current analysis..........

Chip, I'm not alone in my operating costs, have three fleet operators that have numbers to mirror my sentiments....

Yeah but you've let us all know so many times that you're paying almost nothing. Crandall let us know he is paying less than his old A36! So double doesn't sound like much... go for it!

MP,
Experience a lightning strike and resultant inspections of airframe and engine.... Go with Chips averages guys... Or don’t stick your toe in the water. Pan might be boiling.

He's probably deploying flaps and gear at the same time. My friend used to have flap issues and was doing the same thing. I learned from him. don't run flaps and gear at the same time.

Does that not hold true for a CJ?

My friend had alighting strike in his PC12. I don't recall it being so expensive.

I posted all my costs. They're not so different from MP's. I haven't done an HSI yet.

Chips chart regarding PC12:

$75K maintenance
$34K insurance
No mention of depreciation

These are way off. But hell, leave them as is and add in $1000 per hour in the depreciation column of the CJ3 and let's see how it looks.