BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 24 May 2014, 20:47

Username Protected wrote:

I hate to be the nay sayer with this thread but, I shall.

A 240 hour pilot with a $110,000 budget proposes to buy a single engine airplane and use it for 400-1000 nm trips for 90% of the usage? Unless every trip can be made with a window of +/- five days, forgive me while I stop the convulsive laughter. :lol:

I'm not saying impossible, but I am saying highly improbable. 1000 nm will take you across at least one weather system 90% of the time.

My advice is "Delta Is Ready When You Are." :hide:

Jgreen

Were you are at weather is usually pretty good. I would immediately work on that instrument rating. Next, I would look for a 67 or never V35 with a IO-550 in it. They do come available for $100k or so. With just you and full fuel along with another person it will climb 1000 FPM all the way to 13kft and will easily cruise at 16k if you want to. It is an honest 170 knot plane on 11-13 GPH and is soooooo much more comfortable than a Mooney. You do not need a turbo in a V35 IO-550, especially at the low weights you are talking about.

As for 1000 mile trips: When I was 19 I flew my Arrow all over the country VFR. I did many 600-1000 mile trips at 130 knots. Most of them in one day. You don't need a gas sucking turbo charged maintenance pig to go places, but you do need to stay out of the ice :thumbup:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 24 May 2014, 22:14

JG,

I would ask the question in terms of 1000NM. Depending on where you are located and where you are going will determine how often you have to cross weather systems. For example, there are many times I can wait one to two days and fly over 1000NM to Texas and not cross a system, or wait a day and fly to southern Florida and not cross a system. Now if headed to New Hampshire, I can almost guarantee I will pass through a system no matter how many days I wait.

Tim

Username Protected · **Posted:** 25 May 2014, 00:22

Username Protected wrote:

Were you are at weather is usually pretty good. I would immediately work on that instrument rating. Next, I would look for a 67 or never V35 with a IO-550 in it. They do come available for $100k or so. With just you and full fuel along with another person it will climb 1000 FPM all the way to 13kft and will easily cruise at 16k if you want to. It is an honest 170 knot plane on 11-13 GPH and is soooooo much more comfortable than a Mooney. You do not need a turbo in a V35 IO-550, especially at the low weights you are talking about.

As for 1000 mile trips: When I was 19 I flew my Arrow all over the country VFR. I did many 600-1000 mile trips at 130 knots. Most of them in one day. You don't need a gas sucking turbo charged maintenance pig to go places, but you do need to stay out of the ice :thumbup:

Will the real Todd Sanderson please start posting!!!

Username Protected · **Posted:** 25 May 2014, 07:37

John,

I had a 201 prior to my current V35A. The mooney is a great choice for cross country time building if you can fit everyone in it. Two major differences compared to the bonanza comfort wise - cockpit height and vibration. If you like sports car seating position the mooney is great. My feet used to get tired with the vibration through the floor but I had a four cylinder two blade prop model. The six cyl engine and three blade prop are much smoother.

Many good comments about specialized maintenance. Do not take a mooney to someone who doesn't know them. It will cost you more not less. Mooney fuel tanks are "wet wings" which means they seal off several bays in the wing with sealant. This does not last forever and is expensive to fix right. Bonanza bladders with all their fun are easier to maintain.

If you are contemplating any non paved runways, the Mooney is probably not the right choice. very short, stiff gear. Bonanza struts are far more forgiving but cost more to maintain.

Good luck.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 25 May 2014, 12:05

Michael, I was trying to point out that if your schedule flexible you can make just about any trip in any plane. If you have to be somewhere then the equipment must be able to get you there.

I still think for family travel in all weather a twin is the way to go. I will fly anything by myself.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 25 May 2014, 21:56

Username Protected wrote:

JG,

I would ask the question in terms of 1000NM. Depending on where you are located and where you are going will determine how often you have to cross weather systems. For example, there are many times I can wait one to two days and fly over 1000NM to Texas and not cross a system, or wait a day and fly to southern Florida and not cross a system. Now if headed to New Hampshire, I can almost guarantee I will pass through a system no matter how many days I wait.

Tim

Tim,

You will note that with each post, I pointed out that time constraints are the limitation. Using an airplane for pleasure is a completely different matter than having to arrive on a certain day for a scheduled meeting. With a four day window, 2 days +/-, I would rarely have to cancel a trip, but I've seen that scenario as well.

Jgreen

Username Protected · **Posted:** 25 May 2014, 23:46

Username Protected wrote:

:D Michael, I was trying to point out that if your schedule flexible you can make just about any trip in any plane. If you have to be somewhere then the equipment must be able to get you there.

I still think for family travel in all weather a twin is the way to go. I will fly anything by myself.

He's back.....had me worried there. Remember to think about the family even when you are not flying with them. Don't want that insurance policy taking too good a care of the family.

What you need is a plastic clown plane.........with a chute!

Username Protected · **Posted:** 26 May 2014, 10:20

If the Cirrus was not so expensive (along with the parts) I would consider one. I won't own a plane that costs more than my home. I realize this goes against the Ott logic

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Jul 2014, 09:30

Username Protected wrote:

Try one on before you buy. They're great planes but make sure you fit comfortably. The first trip, in a K model actually, it seemed small compared to a 172. As soon as we took off I forgot about the cabin size. That said, they're compact compared to other brands.

Many people say the 252 (k model 1986+) is the best Mooney ever built, but that would run $135k+. There's a lot of 86's on the market right now so there may be an opportunity if you wanted to stretch a bit. There are some STCs available that improve the 231 performance to closer to a 252, but candidly I don't know a lot about them. Plenty of information at MooneySpace.com. Let me know if I can help.

Being a beech forum you might want to look at a v35 TC as well for a 4 seat turbo of a similar vintage, but I suspect the price for a good example would be closer to the 252 Mooney price.

If you want a screamer, look at a Mooney Rocket. 305 horsepower on the front of the same airframe. Out if your budget (~$180-$200?), but crazy fast. You probably won't find a faster certified airplane. Some reports say that the Rocket is faster than the Acclaim type S but I don't have any first hand knowledge.

I was interested in finding out more about the Mooney Rocket, so I called Tim Lundquist at Skywagons in Placerville, CA. They have one for sale.

I asked Tim to take it up and show some "real world" cruise numbers with good CHTs. He graciously obliged.

Attached below are shot of the panel at 12.5k and 17.5k. He played around a little with economy and max performance settings, but you can get the idea. 185KTAS at 12.5 on a lower burn, and 203KTAS at 17.5 whilst pushing things a little more.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Jul 2014, 11:10

The rocket is a rocket. My hangar mate has one. It's seriously fast. Mooney's sip gas......they're dainty compared to a Baron!

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Jul 2014, 11:30

Maybe my calculator is wrong. But I see the following:
12,500Ft
33 degrees
148 IAS
equals 182 TAS on my calculator

17,500ft
16 degrees
148 IAS
equals 197 TAS

Also I have no experience with Mooney ASI and their accuracy. The ASI in my bonanza was off by 6 kts at 160IAS. The baron is dead nuts on :shrug:

Regardless, 182kts on 8.2 GPH at 12.5K is freaking amazing! :peace:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Jul 2014, 11:40

Username Protected wrote:

Maybe my calculator is wrong. But I see the following:
12,500Ft
33 degrees
148 IAS
equals 182 TAS on my calculator

17,500ft
16 degrees
148 IAS
equals 197 TAS

Also I have no experience with Mooney ASI and their accuracy. The ASI in my bonanza was off by 6 kts at 160IAS. The baron is dead nuts on :shrug:

Regardless, 182kts on 8.2 GPH at 12.5K is freaking amazing! :peace:

Yes, I saw that 8.2gph. Do you think that's right? That's 30" x 2280 RPM on a 6-cylinder Continental. Could that possibly be 8.2gph? It seems like that should be at least 11 or 12.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Jul 2014, 11:42

If that's a turbo 6 cyl conti, there is no way 30" and 2300rpm would be running on 8.2gph.

More like 17 gph

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Jul 2014, 11:55

Username Protected wrote:

If that's a turbo 6 cyl conti, there is no way 30" and 2300rpm would be running on 8.2gph.

More like 17 gph

That's what I thought. 17" x 2300 is about 10gph on my NON-turbo IO-550, running well LOP. 30" is almost doubling MP from that level.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Jul 2014, 12:15

Username Protected wrote:

Maybe my calculator is wrong. But I see the following:
12,500Ft
33 degrees
148 IAS
equals 182 TAS on my calculator

17,500ft
16 degrees
148 IAS
equals 197 TAS

Also I have no experience with Mooney ASI and their accuracy. The ASI in my bonanza was off by 6 kts at 160IAS. The baron is dead nuts on :shrug:

Regardless, 182kts on 8.2 GPH at 12.5K is freaking amazing! :peace:

A Mooney M20J (K is the same plane from the firewall back) airspeed indicator shows right at 2-3 knots fast in cruise, depending on airspeed. That's assuming zero indicator error.
here's the chart:

Attachment:

Screen Shot 2014-07-10 at 11.17.33 AM.jpg

Heresy Mooney 20k 231