BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 16 Jan 2013, 19:41

Username Protected wrote:

I'm not taking anything away from Cirrus. They're the guys that listened to their customer's needs and provided solutions. I'd never blame anyone for choosing a Cirrus. On the other hand, I bought a G36 and I still stand by my decision.

Cirrus only has one horse to ride (maybe jet soon), so they had to be more innovative. Sometimes the curse of the small organization becomes the advantage. HBC made the polar opposite bet. If the economy had held together, HBC might have looked like the smart one. It's all about timing. HBC didn't get blind sighted, the went all in on the jet bet and lost big.

I bought my G36 because it is by far the best NA piston on the market. Beech knows that they have a following of owners that want a great NA platform, and it's not a big volume game. I buy things that have timeless beauty and great quality....then take care of them. I think of my Bonanza like an Aston Martin. It has the best craftsmanship, and it's more exclusive.

Now for the Cirrus downside. How would you feel today if you had just taken delivery of your new Cirrus G3? After today's announcement, there goes another $100,000 in resale. And....Cirrus probably just started on their G5 replacement yesterday!

The blessing can become the curse.

Agree, I would like to see the cirus flying in 50 years. That aside I remember several years ago that the state of minn bought a new g36 over a new cirrus. There was all kind of hell about that, cirus is built in Minnesota. Anyway the state aviation people said they wanted the best quality and went g36. That went over well

Username Protected · **Posted:** 16 Jan 2013, 19:54

I spent 2 hours swearing in a cirrus doing something that takes 15 minutes in a beechcraft.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 16 Jan 2013, 20:20

The big difference between a Cirri and a Beech is that the Cirri is not a 10,000+ hr 50 yr airframe like our Beeches....

Username Protected · **Posted:** 16 Jan 2013, 20:23

Username Protected wrote:

I would think so as well, but I hear these stories about Cirri having routine $5,000 annuals because of the various avionics items that need to be tested and batteries replaced. A Bo can have a $5,000 annual here and there as well, of course, but most people seem to budget about $2,000 for those.

Many of these items just 'happen' because it is somewhere in the maintenance manual and the shop tells the owner that they have to be done. On a FAR23 aircraft, certain things HAVE to be done (I believe the things in chapter 4), but that certainly does not include all the stuff listed as periodic maintenance.

If you just park the plane at the HBC service center and drop your checkbook, the bills will be similarly eyewatering.

(I just priced a throttle knob from HBC. $274 for the knob and $204 for the pushbutton :bugeye:

, the entire set of 3 from a PMA supplier is $189)

Username Protected · **Posted:** 16 Jan 2013, 20:24

Username Protected wrote:

Give me the name of one "personality" flying a G36?

Marketing sells.

Jason?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 16 Jan 2013, 20:25

As a general rule, I don't believe you should comment on the pros/cons of a particular aircraft type unless you've actually flown it. I tend to see many pilots bash the SR-22 although they've never been in one or flown one. Although the SR-22 has far from the capabilities of an A-36, the SR-22 is an absolute dream to fly. The ergonomics are fantastic, the performance is great, the visibility is wonderful. It's a very different flying experience from a 'conventional' aircraft.

If it was just me and my money, I would probably pick the SR-22. That being said, for family missions I think the SR-22 has some very serious limitations, especially in regards to UL.

If you find yourself bashing a Cirrus and have never flown one, go fly one and then come back and give your impressions post-flight. I think very few that have actually flown one would bash it. Just my .02...

Username Protected · **Posted:** 16 Jan 2013, 20:26

Username Protected wrote:

The big difference between a Cirri and a Beech is that the Cirri is not a 10,000+ hr 50 yr airframe like our Beeches....

What are you going to be doing in 50 years?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 16 Jan 2013, 20:37

Username Protected wrote:

... I ignored cost of money and depreciation...

Tim

I've been running a lot of scenarios recently looking at various aircraft options and considering TCO (Total Cost of Ownership). I have been absolutely amazed at how the purchase cost has an effect on the overall equation.

When you consider the cost of capital (interest cost or opportunity cost of a potential investment) as well as depreciation costs, it has an ENORMOUS effect on the TCO. If you poop money and have no concern for such things then disregard this message. However, if TCO is of concern to you, then ignoring cost of depreciation and the cost of money while evaluating options is a HUGE mistake...

Username Protected · **Posted:** 16 Jan 2013, 20:39

There is a lot I can say about Cirrus but I'll only say this. They have the most uncomfortable seats of any airplane I've ever flown. One and half hours in that seat and I'm ready to pull the chute!

Username Protected · **Posted:** 16 Jan 2013, 20:40

Looking at TCO takes all the fun out of flying.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 16 Jan 2013, 20:51

Username Protected wrote:

The big difference between a Cirri and a Beech is that the Cirri is not a 10,000+ hr 50 yr airframe like our Beeches....

Doug,

Be accurate. The Cirrus is limited to 12000 hours. Older Beech are not life limited. I do not know the answer on the G36 or beyond (yes, I know the 58P is life limited). But if I fly 200hrs a year theCirrus would last me till I am 101.

Kinda old to be climbing over the wing I think....

Tim

Username Protected · **Posted:** 16 Jan 2013, 20:59

Username Protected wrote:

There is a lot I can say about Cirrus but I'll only say this. They have the most uncomfortable seats of any airplane I've ever flown. One and half hours in that seat and I'm ready to pull the chute!

I'll admit that I haven't yet flown in an A36, so I cannot fairly compare Cirrus vs. Bo on a 1.5 hr flight comparison. It sure would be helpful for an experienced BT member to show me what BO's are all about...

Username Protected · **Posted:** 16 Jan 2013, 21:02

Username Protected wrote:

I've been running a lot of scenarios recently looking at various aircraft options and considering TCO (Total Cost of Ownership). I have been absolutely amazed at how the purchase cost has an effect on the overall equation.

When you consider the cost of capital (interest cost or opportunity cost of a potential investment) as well as depreciation costs, it has an ENORMOUS effect on the TCO. If you poop money and have no concern for such things then disregard this message. However, if TCO is of concern to you, then ignoring cost of depreciation and the cost of money while evaluating options is a HUGE mistake...

Don,

Yes, when considering the purchase costs it can have a dramatic effect on the total cost of ownership. Especially when considering new planes. I kept that separate because the primary purpose of my plane is related to work and investments I have made and it would have made the spreadsheet crazy and provided little additional value to me. Based on comments from many others they have a fixed budget and therefore again the purchase price provides little value for many.

Tim

Username Protected · **Posted:** 16 Jan 2013, 21:14

Username Protected wrote:

Looking at TCO takes all the fun out of flying.

I couldn't have said it better. Ain't that the truth!!!!!

Username Protected · **Posted:** 16 Jan 2013, 21:24

Username Protected wrote:

There is a lot I can say about Cirrus but I'll only say this. They have the most uncomfortable seats of any airplane I've ever flown. One and half hours in that seat and I'm ready to pull the chute!

I'll admit that I haven't yet flown in an A36, so I cannot fairly compare Cirrus vs. Bo on a 1.5 hr flight comparison. It sure would be helpful for an experienced BT member to show me what BO's are all about...

New Cirrus G5 Announcement Tomorrow