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 Post subject: Re: Piper Arrow "...may have replaced the Bonanza..."
PostPosted: 01 Jan 2013, 11:53 
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Joined: 12/12/07
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Company: MBG Properties
Location: Knoxville, TN (KDKX)
Aircraft: 1972 Bonanza V35B
The writer of the AC magazine article doesn't live near Knoxville. No one around here would call the Arrow ubiquitous.

There are more than 20 Bonanzas based at my home airport. Piper Arrows? None. :shrug:

I had an Arrow for about six months and 100 hours. It was my first retractable and I thought it was a nice plane. Then I got a C210 and flew it for about 250 hours. I loved it and thought it was the perfect fast and roomy piston single...until I flew a Bonanza. I still love the ease of entry for the pilot and passengers of that high-winged and strut-less plane model, but that's the only thing I miss. The handling and visibility of the two planes is different with the Bonanza being far superior.

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 Post subject: Re: Piper Arrow "...may have replaced the Bonanza..."
PostPosted: 01 Jan 2013, 12:14 
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Joined: 12/13/07
Posts: 20381
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Location: Seeley Lake, MT (23S)
Aircraft: 1964 Bonanza S35
Username Protected wrote:

When I lived in MT, a Bo was a rare sight. I called FBOs all over the area to find one to show to my wife before I purchased one ( so she knew what I was buying ) I finally found one when a local FBO called me in when an early model arrived for some MX. In 4 years of hanging out at MT airports, that was the 2nd one I'd ever seen there.


Talk about bad luck for you. Bo's are everywhere in Montana.

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 Post subject: Re: Piper Arrow "...may have replaced the Bonanza..."
PostPosted: 01 Jan 2013, 13:38 
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Joined: 06/17/12
Posts: 314
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Location: Savannah, GA
Aircraft: N35
Username Protected wrote:

When I lived in MT, a Bo was a rare sight. I called FBOs all over the area to find one to show to my wife before I purchased one ( so she knew what I was buying ) I finally found one when a local FBO called me in when an early model arrived for some MX. In 4 years of hanging out at MT airports, that was the 2nd one I'd ever seen there.


Talk about bad luck for you. Bo's are everywhere in Montana.


One guy that works at the NWS on the field at Missoula had his dad's there for a while on loan, that was the only one based at KMSO that I'm aware of. There was a Deb there but he sold it years back, I never saw it. There's an early model in Hamilton and a nice V35 based in Philipsburg (I only saw them on the net for sale, never actually with my eyes). The one Northstar called me and the wife in to look at was an older Bo, was a CAP plane. Compare that to my current airport (that has about 1/2 the amount of hangar space as 32S did) where there's a N35,N35,A36,P35 and V35 that I've seen and I'm told there's another A36 on the field also, but I haven't seen it. I see and hear on the radio many more Bonanza's on the east coast than I did in the PNW. The guy landing behind me 2 days ago was in an A36. There was one Bo at the Hamilton MT fly in about 4 months back, compared to 6 or so I saw at small pancake breakfast here a few weeks back. I've seen one Arrow.

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 Post subject: Re: Piper Arrow "...may have replaced the Bonanza..."
PostPosted: 02 Jan 2013, 13:40 
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Joined: 04/04/12
Posts: 2377
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Location: O32 Central Cali.
Aircraft: C150
Aw the retractable Ercoupe,,,,er Arrow. I raced a 182 in for 100 miles. I was so proud to put the wheels up. Had to leave 4500 for 6500 and Bam,, he outclimbed me, beat me to Watsonville.
And by the way, a $65000 Arrow getting beat by a $45000 C182 didn't make plane cents.
Mark


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Arrow "...may have replaced the Bonanza..."
PostPosted: 02 Jan 2013, 13:45 
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Joined: 02/26/08
Posts: 3510
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Location: Dallas, TX (KADS)
Aircraft: 1964 Bonanza S35
Username Protected wrote:
Aw the retractable Ercoupe,,,,er Arrow. I raced a 182 in for 100 miles. I was so proud to put the wheels up. Had to leave 4500 for 6500 and Bam,, he outclimbed me, beat me to Watsonville.
And by the way, a $65000 Arrow getting beat by a $45000 C182 didn't make plane cents.
Mark

Just shows there are mAny variables. I beat the pants off a friends 182 in my arrow. Dd it on less fuel to boot with similar useful load.
But one story doesn't make it all fact. My bonanza has raced many others and some say Trixie is fast. Sadly I've raced with some really fast Grumman's but I'd hate to hear a story about a fast Grumman beating a slow bonanza. And that making someone think all Grumman's are faster than all bonanzas

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 Post subject: Re: Piper Arrow "...may have replaced the Bonanza..."
PostPosted: 02 Jan 2013, 19:27 
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Joined: 11/01/08
Posts: 5006
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Location: KAVQ, Tucson AZ
Aircraft: Sold em all@72
Username Protected wrote:
Piper Arrow
A sensible, well-behaved, moderate performer that never goes out of style.

The key to never going out of style is to not have any in the first place.

:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Piper Arrow "...may have replaced the Bonanza..."
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2013, 13:25 
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Joined: 12/10/09
Posts: 299
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Location: TN and KY
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Wow. I can't understand the Arrow being used for anything but training :duck:


Good point. But I would frame the issue this way: If you could afford to buy a Bonanza, why would you buy an Arrow?

However, it may be the fastest thing some of us can afford to operate and maintain. The question may be would an Arrow be better than nothing if we want to go faster than 120kts cruise?

We can read how a Bonanza costs less to own, fly, and maintain then an Arrow, then in another thread we'll hear how much it really costs.


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Arrow "...may have replaced the Bonanza..."
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2013, 14:44 
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Joined: 02/09/08
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Location: Phoenix, AZ
Aircraft: N35,CL65,CE750,CL30
Username Protected wrote:
Wow. I can't understand the Arrow being used for anything but training :duck:


Good point. But I would frame the issue this way: If you could afford to buy a Bonanza, why would you buy an Arrow?

However, it may be the fastest thing some of us can afford to operate and maintain. The question may be would an Arrow be better than nothing if we want to go faster than 120kts cruise?

We can read how a Bonanza costs less to own, fly, and maintain then an Arrow, then in another thread we'll hear how much it really costs.



I sold my Bonanza a couple of years ago (N35) for $55,000. It was a WAY better plane than any Arrow I have seen other than maybe some newer avionics. Arrows are newer so some people think that is better and I believe they still sell for more than I sold my plane for. Heck I paid more for my newer 172N than I sold the Bo for :crazy: :tape:
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 Post subject: Re: Piper Arrow "...may have replaced the Bonanza..."
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2013, 18:28 
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Joined: 12/10/09
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Location: TN and KY
I don't think the issue is which is better. The issue for the market is cost.

More can afford to fly an Arrow compared to a Bonanza. Maybe that was the AVC article author's point.
Did the author say which aircraft was better?


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Arrow "...may have replaced the Bonanza..."
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2013, 18:37 
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Joined: 12/18/07
Posts: 20816
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Location: W Michigan
Aircraft: Ex PA22, P28R, V35B
Username Protected wrote:
I don't think the issue is which is better. The issue for the market is cost.

More can afford to fly an Arrow compared to a Bonanza. Maybe that was the AVC article author's point.
Did the author say which aircraft was better?


The only point of the comment was that there are still a lot of Arrows around. However, I still see more Bonanzas on a typical ramp than Arrows.

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 Post subject: Re: Piper Arrow "...may have replaced the Bonanza..."
PostPosted: 05 Jan 2013, 08:07 
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Joined: 02/09/08
Posts: 2643
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Location: Phoenix, AZ
Aircraft: N35,CL65,CE750,CL30
and a lot of people come from training in Cherokees so they progress into Arrows........I just don't remember seeing too many cheap Arrows.

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 Post subject: Re: Piper Arrow "...may have replaced the Bonanza..."
PostPosted: 09 Jan 2013, 15:04 
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Joined: 11/30/10
Posts: 87
Location: Orlando, FL X04
Aircraft: Renter for now
One of the things that I have seen is that the cost of an Arrow is starting to approach the cost of a simular Piper fixed wing plane. In that context, I'd take the Arrow over an Archer.


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Arrow "...may have replaced the Bonanza..."
PostPosted: 09 Jan 2013, 15:30 
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Joined: 04/11/08
Posts: 10307
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Location: Appleton WI or Denton TX, TX (KDTO)
Aircraft: 1965 Baron B55
This CSOB's answer to the Arrow was the BE24R Sierra, which was my 1st airplane that I flew for 9 years and 1400 hours.

Pick a number of $20-$25K less than a comparable Arrow (last time I checked). Great console controls complex retractable. These days you can buy a nicely equipped IO Bonanza for about the cost of an Arrow. :shrug:

It all depends on the benefits you value and want to pay for :thumbup:

Mike

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 Post subject: Re: Piper Arrow "...may have replaced the Bonanza..."
PostPosted: 09 Jan 2013, 17:36 
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Joined: 08/20/11
Posts: 322
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Location: Kennewick, WA
Aircraft: Piper Cheyenne I
Username Protected wrote:
You guys are discounting the Turbo Arrow , which is a totally different animal than the Arrow.....The Turbo Arrow is a nice aircraft , I would put it up there with a Bo , The regular Arrow , is a real piece of POOP !!!


I agree with Alan,

I will always have a affection for the Turbo Arrow. My first aircraft that I owned was a 1978 PA 201T. (Turbo Arrow). It was fast (TAS in the 150's), cruised happily in the 13-17k range, ran cool, performed very well at high elevation airports here in the Pacific Northwest and was economical to operate. I put about 600 hours on it and was truly sad to have to sell but when my payload became a wife, 2 kids and a dog the turbo arrow no longer fit my mission. I upgraded to a 1984 A36TN and have been very happy but I have nothing bad to say about the PA28R-201T. Sure, the Bo is faster, heavier, has more room in the back, has a bigger engine etc but... Here are a couple of pics:


Please login or Register for a free account via the link in the red bar above to download files.

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 Post subject: Re: Piper Arrow "...may have replaced the Bonanza..."
PostPosted: 10 Jan 2013, 12:05 
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Joined: 11/30/10
Posts: 34
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Aircraft: B-55, V-35
Well sir. Park an Arrow on the ramp next to a V35. all things being considered, see which one grabs the most attention. Better yet, top off both aircraft and load them to capacity and which one do you suppose has a more useful load. Even better, launch them both and see how far each travels in an hour. Finally, fly each for 4 hours (you can do it in a Bonanza) and at the end of the trip, which one would you climb back into for another 4 hours??


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