It's not odd. There is a full-page ad for the 850 in every issue of each of the glossies every month. Customers like Pilatus and Socata are what keeps the aviation mags in business. They can expect enthusiastic treatment when they get covered.

I have realized that everyone in aviation is trying to sell you something. The comparisons that make the PC12 look expensive are from folks who deal in TBMs, the folks who make the Meridian look bad try to sell Jetprops. Once you look at any piece of data with that jaded perspective it starts to make a lot more sense.

Otoh if you have 6 branches of your business in 5 different states in a 800nm radius and you have to get out and back together with your accountant and COO to visit one of those branches every week a TBM (Meridian, PC12) may make perfect sense. 'A turbine needs a job' is more than an idle saying.

Thanks. That seems to be the number everyone arrives at one way or another.

David,

Total real cost is more than double $800.00/hr based on your $300 hrs./yr. TBM publishes $147,000/yr. @ 200 hours with high time owner/pilot ($735,00/hr.) while under warranty (includes reserves). The real smasher not included is about $200,000/yr. depreciation during the first 5 years and the cost of money (or loss of investment if paying cash).

For a new TBM, 200 hrs./yr. @ 5.5%, the hourly cost for interest is $935.00/hr. alone!

Operating $735.00/hr.
Depreciation $1000.00/hr.
Interest $935.00/hr.

Total cost $2670.00/hr @ 200 hrs./yr. during first 5 year period.

The real cost is over $534,000/yr. during the first 5 years. If you're a low time pilot, insurance, a mentor pilot, and training costs are more. Five year ownership will approach $3,000,000.00.

OUCH!!!

1. You're right, the TBM is a little stiff legged. To date, this is the hardest aircraft to consistently land smoothly that I have flown. Give me a Baron or Bonanza any day! The lack of trailing link gear added with the main tires at 130+ psi make for a firm arrival at times with the occasional bounce. One nice thing though is the light nose. With the CG usually aft, you can ride on the mains for a long time before gently lowering the nose.

2. Never had a problem with the battery. Granted we usually don't go longer than 7 days between trips. They do have a STC for a trickle charger, but TBM recommends to just disconnect the battery between flights.

3. You're right, Socata's support is nothing like Hawker/Beechcraft. The key for TBM owners is to travel to one of the few TBM service centers in the country to get the best service. Given the fleet size is relatively small, there just isn't a lot of mx knowledge for the TBM. We travel to Avex in Camarillo, CA for our 100 hrs. and annual. It's a 3+ hour flight, but they're the closest to us in CO. They know the TBM inside and out and do excellent work. With all the shops I have dealt with in aviation, Avex is by far the best one yet. So far it's worth the extra travel.

4. You're right about that.

5. I'm not overly concerned about FOD. It is a definite risk, but I leave the inertial separator open from engine start to after takeoff (if the OAT is not too high) and from approach to shut down. Haven't had any problems yet.

6. I've been with an instructor to go through some demonstrated torque roll scenarios. My experience is that you have to be extremely slow (around 70 KIAS at 6800 lbs.) when you add full power to get it to start rolling. The rolling happened fast, but we recovered at around 60 degrees bank angle. The torque roll concern is not a big deal if you fly the correct airspeeds on the approach. If you have to go around when you're crossing the threshold, you're still at 80-85 KIAS and have plenty of air moving over the airframe. And the beauty with having so much power is that you don't need full power on a go around in most cases to get a respectable climb rate, which further lessens the risk of torque rolls.

Rick: What your now addressing is what's keeping me out of the turbine market. I've watched some of these come down over $1,000,000 in a few years. Someone on here posted that the early TBM850s are now under $2,000,000. Well, someone paid over $3,000,000 for that new. I just work too hard to earn a million to see it depreciate away in a few years <g>. Although I use the plane for some business, I don't have the need to be in multiple stated for business on a regular basis.

Conversely, if someone invested those funds in something that appreciated, like my business has, it's a much easier decision to stay with my 58P and put other funds back into my business. While the allure is great; the numbers suck.

Best,

Dave

OUCH is right Rick! I guess if you throw in "little" things like time value of money and depreciation the picture looks different. I'm glad I just have to worry about not breaking the airplane and get them where they need to go so they can keep making money.

I love the TBM and always had a dream of flying the world in a personal turbine.

When you consider dumping $2 or 3 million dollars over a five year period, there's a lot of competition in this world for a better way to spend a million plus dollars.

It has to be an honest deduction and it has to make money for you to pass the stomach test.

FYI....I told a TBM owner, "I can sleep on my boat but you can't sleep on an airplane." He quickly corrected me, "You can sleep on an airplane but you can't fly a boat!"

If money costs money, buying new is insane for any aircraft, the math looks even worse for a 5+mil KA200 or let alone a jet.

There seems to be some flattening of the curve towards only about 100-150k per year in depreciation after about 5 years .

In the first 5 years, we're trading depreciation for warranty and service. When I visited TBM NA, they showed me how they have a schedule for each serial #, the specific services and inspections preformed to date, and TT. They can quickly conclude the aircraft's current market value. Any service put on the back burner is deducted from current value. They keep an accurate data base. They know what parts have been purchased for each airframe. You can't cut corners. They have it down.

It not like buying a Bonanza with mystery log books and unknown maintenance.

I suppose a low time 700 C at $1.5 million should be cheaper for the next 5 year period, unless you have a major break. There are only 7 "Cs" on the current market. "A" models don't have the payload or the big back door. The "B" models don't have the payload. They are worth considerable less for a reason.

There's no free lunch.

With everything that's been discussed so far, I will say that in the big picture the 850 has been a very good airplane for us in the corporate setting. We operate out of a small rural airport with no mx facilities. The closest airline flight is a two hour drive, but that doesn't matter because the airlines do not serve over 90% of our destinations. Our TBM has been ready go every time since I have been flying it for the last 300 hours. It has a pretty good useful load. I can fill the seats plus baggage and still have 2 hours of fuel plus reserves. That can get us 400-600 NM down the road in most wind conditions, which works well for us. Or I can take 4 folks and have 3:45 of fuel plus reserves.

We have a lot of trips in the mountainous areas of Colorado, Wyoming, Utah, and Nevada, so the reliability, safety, and comfort of a pressurized turbine is a must.

And like with most aircraft, there a quirks that need to be figured out in the TBM. Once you get a handle of the operational idiosyncrasies of the TBM, it truly is a joy to fly vmc, imc, night, or day.

Compared to the competition and their operating costs, I have yet to find any other aircraft the fits our mission as well as the 850. Probably the closest would be a Blackhawk KA 200, but their operating costs would be higher.

Even an unscheduled overhaul (ouch!) would be cheaper than what a new one burns through in depreciation every year.



Oh, if you listen to some, you can fly a KA90 basically for free if you just skimp on the engine maintenance and dump it on an unsuspecting buyer before the next major phase inspection is due .

No free lunch in turbine land, even the mints on the way out are $225 each.....

Hey, we have to go thru the turbine math every once in a while. It's like goin' to the strip club the night before you renew your Bonanza wedding vows!

So true!