BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 17 Feb 2011, 08:28

Username Protected wrote:

I sorta like it but....

When you take in all the factors....parts avail, service, resale, utility, durability, small organization, over $2 mil price tag, off brand avionics, little bit toyish ramp appeal, non-corporate seating arrangement, you kinda go Hmmm. :scratch:

When you're spending serious money, it might make the list....just not the top of the list. It takes top of list to make the sale. Coming in at choice #3 or #4 won't cut it.

So Rick, are you sayin' that you're not buying one?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 17 Feb 2011, 08:49

It sure looks that way. When they were in the $1 million-ish and before the bankruptcy, it made you think hard about one. I'm holding out for a single turboprop. I just don't have a mission need for anything more than my Bo, but that might change in a couple of years.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 17 Feb 2011, 08:56

We have a local Bonanza owner/corporate pilot who presently is flying a CJ2 and an Eclipse. A fellow BT member often flies right seat with him. Maybe he will relate some of his experience in the Eclipse.

Bob?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 17 Feb 2011, 08:59

Managed airplanes, create a "Black Hole" for your money to fall into!

Our comapny sold our "Black Holes" and we watch our funds better than
others.

my $.02

Username Protected · **Posted:** 17 Feb 2011, 10:16

It's like a Baron. You have to want to fly an Eclipse to own one. Pretty simple. I get it why someone would want to fly one. :thumbup:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 17 Feb 2011, 10:31

Username Protected wrote:

It's like a Baron. You have to want to fly an Eclipse to own one. Pretty simple. I get it why someone would want to fly one. :thumbup:

The point is, for the price of an Eclipse, there are a lot of bad ass airplanes. Why choose an Eclipse when you can have a late model CJ1+ or a Mustang?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 17 Feb 2011, 10:43

Does the reconstituted Eclipse still have the same idiotic maintenenceand training requirements?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 17 Feb 2011, 10:48

Username Protected wrote:

Is it an "airplane salesman" thing to take people up and do turns and slow flight and other maneuvers?? I never understood the practice or doing this to sell an airplane. I don't want to do slow flight and turns and stuff. I want to fly the airplane fast and far and see what it can can do.

I went up with the TBM salesman and he's like "ok, let's drop the gear and do so some slow flight". I'm like "F that, let's red line it and dump the clutch". Know what I mean?

ROFL. Yea, I am buying this TBM to fly over my girlfriends house and practice my turns around a point.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 17 Feb 2011, 15:48

Username Protected wrote:

It's like a Baron. You have to want to fly an Eclipse to own one. Pretty simple. I get it why someone would want to fly one. :thumbup:

The point is, for the price of an Eclipse, there are a lot of bad ass airplanes. Why choose an Eclipse when you can have a late model CJ1+ or a Mustang?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 17 Feb 2011, 18:26

Username Protected wrote:

.... and there's a lot of good turboprops that probably make a lot more sense, both in cost of operation and capability. The CJ and Mustang are a LOT more dollars, without a lot more capability.... other that a bit of speed. (Oh, but I guess that's what you want....)

The CJ and Mustang are much better planes. They don't quote 41K' to get the speed. They hold more fuel and have a lot more range at a lower altitude.

All the Eclipse numbers are cooked.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 17 Feb 2011, 22:28

You should find a different situation. The owner is trying to make his problem yours. Eclipse took a lot of money from a lot of people. You can find a much better plane for your money. At least one you could sell to someone else when you want to .

Username Protected · **Posted:** 17 Feb 2011, 23:48

To me, you're comparing apples and oranges. A CJ weighs how many pounds? What's the fuel burn? Cabin class that has to go high and far with a lot of folks to make any sense.

Mustang is more the size of a,King Air. Cabin class with a potty. I flew one: very nice, but range with reserves wasn't much better than my Baron.

Eclipse is closer to my 58P. Fits in the same hanger. Not cabin class. Much more efficient for a couple folks. If the numbers are cooked, I'd really appreciate knowing how. FL410 isn't going to happen a lot, but one doesn't have to plan using those numbers.

Dave

Username Protected · **Posted:** 18 Feb 2011, 00:03

Username Protected wrote:

Eclipse is closer to my 58P. Fits in the same hanger. Not cabin class. Much more efficient for a couple folks. If the numbers are cooked, I'd really appreciate knowing how. FL410 isn't going to happen a lot, but one doesn't have to plan using those numbers.Dave

When I was flying the Eclipse, one flight stands out. FL340, 340 KTAS, six people on board (710 pounds), from Cabo San Lucas to Nogales. A beautiful flight, smooth as glass, picking my way around scattered TRW, Radar showing a gorgeous picture. A perfect day. FL350 is the sweet spot, higher is only good for weather.

But I had more trouble with those two airplanes in 120 hours than with my own Bonanza in 2,000, or the 747 in 23,000! A real love/hate relationship!

Best...
John Deakin

Username Protected · **Posted:** 18 Feb 2011, 00:03

Username Protected wrote:

To me, you're comparing apples and oranges. A CJ weighs how many pounds? What's the fuel burn? Cabin class that has to go high and far with a lot of folks to make any sense.

Mustang is more the size of a,King Air. Cabin class with a potty. I flew one: very nice, but range with reserves wasn't much better than my Baron.

Eclipse is closer to my 58P. Fits in the same hanger. Not cabin class. Much more efficient for a couple folks. If the numbers are cooked, I'd really appreciate knowing how. FL410 isn't going to happen a lot, but one doesn't have to plan using those numbers.

Dave

I think your size meter is out of calibration

. A CJ isn't close to the size of a KA (just try moving about in both and you'll quickly feel that). Also, i think a mustang and eclipse are pretty close (I've been in an eclipse, but not a mustang...only see pics and layout)A CJ is pretty great for sure, and your saying that it's a different class than the eclipse is quite true.

Also, the "make any sense" thing is all relative. I think you would find most personally owned CJ's fly with only 1 to 2 on board most of the time. Hell, I know gulfstreams that fly with 1 or 2 passengers a good portion of the time (that's no joke)....and they also fly it without hesitation on as short of trips as 50 nm (again, no joke, I can show you the flight aware).

Username Protected · **Posted:** 18 Feb 2011, 00:32

Username Protected wrote:

To me, you're comparing apples and oranges. A CJ weighs how many pounds? What's the fuel burn? Cabin class that has to go high and far with a lot of folks to make any sense.

Mustang is more the size of a,King Air. Cabin class with a potty. I flew one: very nice, but range with reserves wasn't much better than my Baron.

Eclipse is closer to my 58P. Fits in the same hanger. Not cabin class. Much more efficient for a couple folks. If the numbers are cooked, I'd really appreciate knowing how. FL410 isn't going to happen a lot, but one doesn't have to plan using those numbers.

Dave[/quote

I think your size meter is out of calibration

. A CJ isn't close to the size of a KA (just try moving about in both and you'll quickly feel that). Also, i think a mustang and eclipse are pretty close (I've been in an eclipse, but not a mustang...only see pics and layout)A CJ is pretty great for sure, and your saying that it's a different class than the eclipse is quite true.

Also, the "make any sense" thing is all relative. I think you would find most personally owned CJ's fly with only 1 to 2 on board most of the time. Hell, I know gulfstreams that fly with 1 or 2 passengers a good portion of the time (that's no joke)....and they also fly it without hesitation on as short of trips as 50 nm (again, no joke, I can show you the flight aware).

Eclipse demo flight tomorrow.