BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 Feb 2024, 16:33

Username Protected wrote:

Yes, I was assuming given his budget he’d be in a II, but a 501 would probably be a better comp. A 501 isn’t all that much faster and it has significantly less range though. Which one is cheaper depends how much you fly.

The 501 is not a particularly efficient airplane. My V gets the same or even better nm/gal for fuel. This is due to flying higher, better wing, and more efficient engine. Being faster in headwinds also helps.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 Feb 2024, 16:37

Username Protected wrote:

Mike,

What about the "jet tax" fees - ramp, parking, handling, overnight, etc?

I just called Atlantic at Aspen, which has maddeningly high fees, and to my surprise the fees for a 501 were about the same as a 441.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 Feb 2024, 16:40

Holy crap I didn't know the market for these was so hot.

S/II for $2.7M. Maybe he's dreaming.

https://www.controller.com/listing/for- ... t-aircraft

Here's an SII for $950K though.

https://www.controller.com/listing/for- ... t-aircraft

I'd thought that a 441 and S/II or V were in the same ballpark price-wise. Not sure if that is true or not, there seems to be a huge range.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 Feb 2024, 17:04

Username Protected wrote:

S/II for $2.7M. Maybe he's dreaming.
https://www.controller.com/listing/for- ... t-aircraft

That's a Williams converted SII, with FJ44-3A engines. Very long range, 2500 nm.

I tried to buy a similar plane, but ended up not doing so, and I got the V instead. My west coast range in a headwind isn't quite non stop all the time and it would have been in a converted SII.

This particular one, S550-0144, was super heavy, like 9600 lbs empty, so that when it was full fuel, it had no useful load left, literally none. This was due to the universal screens. N840JH now, previously C-FSRX, N543SC, VQ-BFT, so it has been all over. This is very much an oddball aircraft, one of the few with the Clifford (versus Sierra) conversion.

If you buy it, you get no useful load, weird avionics, and have to pay the Williams tax. Plus you don't get thrust reversers. The seller is dreaming.

Quote:

Here's an SII for $950K though.

That is more typical of the market, maybe a touch high.

Quote:

I'd thought that a 441 and S/II or V were in the same ballpark price-wise. Not sure if that is true or not, there seems to be a huge range.

V is definitely preferred over the SII and the prices reflect that.

441 and V are about the same price now, give or take.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 Feb 2024, 17:15

Username Protected wrote:

I just called Atlantic at Aspen, which has maddeningly high fees, and to my surprise the fees for a 501 were about the same as a 441.

Attachment:

kase-441-fees.png

Attachment:

kase-501-fees.png

Not meaningfully different, $15 more for facility fee, and a few bucks more for a hangar.

4 night ski trip, no fuel:

441: $1281
501: $1296

$15 difference.

Fuel is $9.07, which makes paying the facility fee cheaper than buying fuel.

I am probably never landing at KASE in any type airplane.

What the heck is a "habitat fee"? Is that to provide an ecosystem for feral pilots since they can't afford lodging in Aspen?

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 Feb 2024, 17:44

Wasn't nearly so bad when I used to fly into Aspen, but that was a long time ago.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 Feb 2024, 18:57

The TBM 850 will do all of that an more.
Faster, stronger and climbs better than an M600.
Not sure how tall you are but I dont fit in a Piper M at 6’2”.
Go fly both and then decide.

Username Protected wrote:

I'm looking to upgrade from a DA62 and am interested in either a TBM 850 or a used M600. Does anyone have a Foreflight aircraft profile for a G1000 TBM 850 they could share with me? I've already got one for the M600 and am wanting to compare the two by experimenting with different loading scenarios. Email is thomrainey@gmail.com.

Here is what I'm looking to be able to accomplish with the new airplane.
1. Comfortably carry 4 adults and light bags 1,000 nm.
2. Comfortably carry 2 adults and 4 kids (10 years old and under) with light bags 1,000 nm.
3. Occasionally carry 6 adults and light bags 500 nm (doesn't have to be comfortable).
4. Can do all the above, but is also suitable for weekly, short 150 nm trips. The 500+nm trips will be about 1x per month, and the shorter trips will be 1-2x per week. I want one plane for everything so it needs to be versatile.
5. Garmin avionics with Garmin autopilot.
6. Easy to preflight and hop in and go! Don't want it to be a big ordeal to go flying.
7. Turbine reliability
8. Supported by shops/service centers within 200nm of Albany, GA (KABY).
9. Purchase price of 2.5 million and under.
10. Easy to resell in the future.

Since owning a plane at the end of 2019, I've average about 200-250 hours per year and don't expect to fly any less in the future.

I've got about 900 hours of experience. Commercial pilot ASEL, AMEL, Instrument rated, and CFI.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 14 Feb 2024, 21:40

Just saw an announcement of a new M700 variant.

[Link]https://www.piper.com/press-releases/piper-aircraft-announces-new-m700-fury/[/Link]

Username Protected · **Posted:** 14 Feb 2024, 22:59

Yep. Some discssion about the new M700 can be found here.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 Feb 2024, 22:18

Username Protected wrote:

I will continue the Beechtalk tradition of responding to "Should I buy A or B?" by answering with "C"

And I will offer "D"

: Turbo Commander. More room than the 441, similar range, better supported.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 Feb 2024, 01:39

Username Protected wrote:

The Turbo Commander has now taken the lead in the run up.

Get a big hanger and avoid turbulence.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 Feb 2024, 09:32

Username Protected wrote:

The Turbo Commander has now taken the lead in the run up.

Get a big hanger and avoid turbulence.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 Feb 2024, 09:49

THAT is AWESOME

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 Feb 2024, 10:00

Thankfully, I’ve already taken care of this. Our rural airport did not have a hangar large enough for the DA62, so they allowed us to build our own. Went a head and built an 80’x65’ hangar with a 65’x19’ hangar door opening so it would fit anything we ever need.[/quote]

That is beautiful!

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 Feb 2024, 10:31

Username Protected wrote:

Thankfully, I’ve already taken care of this.

Cool.

Now about that turbulence...

The big wing of the Commander has a lower wing loading making turbulence more uncomfortable.

Main pluses of the Commander are long range, TPE331 engines, and benign engine out handling. It does seem to require more maintenance than its peers like the MU2 or 441. You will want to find a shop that knows them well.

Fly the Commander for a few years, then find a Citation to improve the experience for your passengers. You'll already be used to having a control column.

Mike C.

TBM 850 vs. M600