“Goat rope” might be embellished but yes, it’s hectic.

Simply arrive on Tuesday or later. Some have reported here on BT that it’s a breeze on those days.

I've been to OSH twice. First time in a flight of T34s on the warbird arrival, which was fine. Second time in my Bonanza I made a straight-in to rwy 36 at GRB, cleared to land 10 miles out, parked on concrete, took a rental car to Lambeau for the tour, then to the Hyatt Regency for the night.

No parking in the mud, no sleeping on the ground, clean sheets and towels and a restaurant just downstairs from my room. Just needed an hour drive to/from each day. It was nice.

This is really the biggest "danger" at Oshkosh. It's the guys who aren't current enough to be flying in the pattern at their home airport, let alone trying to either fly the FISK arrival or, god help everyone, a formation arrival. While there's not a good way to fix that problem, the desire to put inclusivity ahead of safety certainly just makes the problem worse. Sure, it might be "mean" to kick someone out of the "group" because they're not proficient enough, but safety has to take priority and if the pilot in question isn't proficient enough, they've got nobody to blame but themselves.

The Fisk arrival is a goat rope that puts a bunch of people (me included) off. If I ever go to Osh I will do it with B2osh or not at all.

The arrival patterns are largely predictable, assuming that weather doesn't close the arrival or parking. There's a trickle of early arrivals and volunteers up through Thursday. Friday has a moderate amount of traffic but most of the time the arrival is not crowded. The stampede comes Saturday and Sunday, with a steady flow of traffic on Monday. Tuesday is back to being moderate, and by Wed. it's unexciting.

Last year people started leaving the N40 in significant numbers on Tuesday and they were backfilling those spots. In prior years the has been less ability to backfill.

It seems to me, and apparently also to the FAA, that they put being inclusive over safety. Too inclusive of disparate speeds and also too inclusive of pilot experience, proficiency, and training requirements.

Trying to fly one formation with 4 or 5 different cruise speeds, IMHO, should have greatly increased the pilot requirements and also weather/visibility minimums. It would be much better to split the group. I would think two or at a max three different groups could accommodate the same range of aircraft with less risk. So what if the 150's can't camp right next to a twin or Corvallis? The Cherokees don't try to fly formation with cubs and seminoles.

Really? (Maybe the C2O briefers need to put that in all caps?)



This is from the 2021 briefing taken from a Martin Pauly video... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6JeXzCl4eU

In 2023 the speed will be 110 knots. So when was it 90 knots? In 2022 for one time only? A one time only experiment doesn't warrant all caps unless we start a debate on what the meaning of IS is. I also highly doubt the FAA's decision was based on 2022 alone. Sure sounds to me like speed of the mass arrival has been a major issue for a while and the FAA doesn't think they have managed it appropriately. YMMV, but then again, the FAA doesn't give a crap what any of us think.

Matt

I have looked over my past notes I took during the formation clinic. I was incorrect in the speed. It was stated that the Average speed was 90 kts for the group. I also looked at my tracklog for the flight and my speed was 95kts almost the whole flight. I stand corrected.

Although it is in no way dissimilar speed aircraft flying in formation. The slower ones leave first the faster ones catch up. I was in a 182 so i was smack in the middle i hardly looked at my asi as my eyes were outside the whole time. It was a great flight and an amazing experience

I think, and yes this is conjecture as neither I nor anyone I know was in on the discussions, but I think it is the management of the faster planes catching up to the slower planes that has been a significant part of the concern.

Seems to me like an idea that is clever but not wise.

I always thought that system was backwards. The faster birds generally have the most experienced pilots, and those should be the leaders of the pack. While the faster and medium-faster planes are extending the formation to single file, the slower planes will be catching up. It seems more likely to create a smooth and steady flow of traffic to the runway than having traffic stack up behind the slow planes.

Is there not a single speed that everyone could fly? What speed does a 152 do with it firewalled?

Seems like everyone being at 100kts would work fine. Even the 310s should be able to do that.

Yes. I agree. This was thrown about during some of the group last year. I believe that is where I got my 90 kts from. If i am not mistaken that is the general arrival procedure speed. I am wondering if the numbers of the arrival would extend the time they close the airspace for other arrivals. The different speeds compresses (theoretically) the group upon landing. It seemed like a pretty quick arrival to me. I was in element Mike following the 150’s and 172’s and by the time we taxied and got out most everyone had landed. The arrival I do know did not create any undue delay to the fisk arrivals. It was opened on time

Really??? I was watching the shitstorm of the Sunday arrival last year using my ipad and my sentry. It looked like a swarm of flies that came from every point of the compass before and even after the fisk point.
.

I have no 152 time, but I did my initial PPL flying in a pair of 150's. Book max cruise was about 100 true (definitely not indicated), but the two I flew (no wheel pants, far from brand new) wouldn't touch that at 2000 msl on a hot summer day even firewalled. I would think 90 indicated would be a max assuming no one is overgross but even that could be optimistic.

If you dropped the 120/140/150/152, everything else could probably do 95 or 100, or split the 2 seaters and 172's into an 85 knot group and the rest into a 110 knot group. Schedule the two groups separately so there is no issue of a big gap between them, or the faster planes over-running the slow one.

Legend says the original purpose of the B2OSH mass arrival was so a group of friends could park and camp together.

Staging at LaCrosse, the briefing, flying in together, the Saturday arrival pizza and margaritas, the Sunday dinner and event…. It is all part of the social experience. Yes, some people use it just to arrive and don’t socialize, but they are missing out.

Larry Gaines does a great job of organizing the event. The leaders of the formation (and the training at the clinics) help keep us safe.

The flying and easier arrival is the cherry on top.