22 Jun 2025, 19:32 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: New M600 vs used TBM/PC12 Posted: 18 Jan 2021, 18:53 |
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Joined: 02/09/18 Posts: 9 Post Likes: +2
Aircraft: SR20
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Again, thanks for even more input. I think have a good idea on the operating cost and the mission for each type. Looks like ultimately, this will indeed not be the decisive factor. Now for flying the planes...thats another subject. As I mentioned, I am coming up to 1000h experience, mostly VFR and some time on more complex planes like the TB20 or the Cirrus. A Fedex Pilot friend said that I fly very smooth and precise but stepping up to the PC12 might be a steep learning curve. Despite the fact that the TBM and the M600 are probably more fun to fly as a pilot. What do you think? No doubt the wives will feel pampered in the executive cabin of the PC-12... 
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Post subject: Re: New M600 vs used TBM/PC12 Posted: 18 Jan 2021, 19:14 |
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Joined: 11/08/12 Posts: 7391 Post Likes: +4861 Location: Live in San Carlos, CA - based Hayward, CA KHWD
Aircraft: Piaggio Avanti
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Username Protected wrote: As I mentioned, I am coming up to 1000h experience, mostly VFR and some time on more complex planes like the TB20 or the Cirrus. A Fedex Pilot friend said that I fly very smooth and precise but stepping up to the PC12 might be a steep learning curve. It depends a lot on you. 1000 hours of VFR does not add a lot toward flying a turbine aircraft, because the actual physical flying is a small part of the job. You will get that down in a few hours of flight. But being in an IFR environment most of the time, and having IFR flight procedures come at you more rapidly is where it becomes more challenging. Having to respond to ATC instructions and knowing what likely comes next requires a level of comfort with the system. So... go practice your IFR skills and procedures and get used to flying in the IFR system. That is the skill set you'll really need.
_________________ -Jon C.
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Post subject: Re: New M600 vs used TBM/PC12 Posted: 18 Jan 2021, 19:32 |
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Joined: 08/16/15 Posts: 3435 Post Likes: +4965 Location: Ogden UT
Aircraft: Piper M600
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Username Protected wrote: Again, thanks for even more input. I think have a good idea on the operating cost and the mission for each type. Looks like ultimately, this will indeed not be the decisive factor. Now for flying the planes...thats another subject. As I mentioned, I am coming up to 1000h experience, mostly VFR and some time on more complex planes like the TB20 or the Cirrus. A Fedex Pilot friend said that I fly very smooth and precise but stepping up to the PC12 might be a steep learning curve. Despite the fact that the TBM and the M600 are probably more fun to fly as a pilot. What do you think? No doubt the wives will feel pampered in the executive cabin of the PC-12...  Compared to the PC 12, the M600 would be comparing a Hertz rental truck (without power steering  to a BMW X5. Maybe not quite that dramatic, but fly them back to back and you’ll get it what I’m saying. On the comments of Honeywell versus Garmin, there used to be a fella here with a PC 12NG and even after a thousand hours or so in the NG still lamented for his G1000. Which is a dinosaur compared to the G3000 in the M600. There is just no comparison. One is an iPhone, the other is a flip phone. But as far as carrying stuff long ways and safely, the PC 12 is awesome. Only the M600 has the auto land get out of jail free card, in addition to being completely envelope protected, including autopilot engagement if the pilot inadvertently gets out of control. For low time pilots, or pilots that don’t fly a lot of hours, those safety features really are something to consider. Maintenance in the M600 is essentially free for five years with piper ultimate, and fuel burn is typically 50 gallons the first hour, 40 gallons for subsequent hours and you’ll probably go annual to annual with no interim maintenance. If direct operating costs are important, the other two aircraft are not going to be in the same league.
_________________ Chuck Ivester Piper M600 Ogden UT
Last edited on 18 Jan 2021, 19:50, edited 1 time in total.
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Post subject: Re: New M600 vs used TBM/PC12 Posted: 18 Jan 2021, 21:25 |
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Joined: 01/13/21 Posts: 42 Post Likes: +32
Aircraft: Arrow
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Username Protected wrote: Our mission is Central Europe, to the Mediterranean, for the longest trips about 700-800 miles max, with 2-3 adults and 2-3 children, I would say 800 pounds weight for all of us, plus light luggage. But that is not the routine. The routine would be one to two hour flights with 1-3 adults on board. Insurance will be no problem here, my UK underwriter (Visicover) will cover the TBM without safety pilot, unfortunately they don't cover the M600 and the PC12 so they would require a safety pilot for the first 20-50 hours, which is not an issue because our second partner is an ATPL pilot. I haven't considered the Conquest because the one with the biggest wallet in our team  doesn't want an old or loud airplane, but maybe we could invest the money we save into new cockpit and interior...? I think the priority is the lowest operating cost, speed is not that much of an issue, as long as we can make the 700 miles trip in no more than 3 hours. And since we don't have to count the cost of capital, I thought a brand new M600 might give us less worries about expensive gear actuators or Honeywell avionics problems. Because of this post, I would recommend that you get a Piper M600 new, over a used TBM, and the 12 makes no sense at at all. You're not trying to move a baseball team.
_________________ The best things in life are not things.
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Post subject: Re: New M600 vs used TBM/PC12 Posted: 19 Jan 2021, 01:38 |
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Joined: 05/06/14 Posts: 7081 Post Likes: +8541 Company: The French Tradition Location: KCRQ - Carlsbad - KTOA
Aircraft: 89 A36 TN, 78 Tiger
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Username Protected wrote: Again, thanks for even more input. I think have a good idea on the operating cost and the mission for each type. Looks like ultimately, this will indeed not be the decisive factor. Now for flying the planes...thats another subject. As I mentioned, I am coming up to 1000h experience, mostly VFR and some time on more complex planes like the TB20 or the Cirrus. A Fedex Pilot friend said that I fly very smooth and precise but stepping up to the PC12 might be a steep learning curve. Despite the fact that the TBM and the M600 are probably more fun to fly as a pilot. What do you think? No doubt the wives will feel pampered in the executive cabin of the PC-12...  Because of the dramatic weather most Europe has, I would venture that the Pilatus be a more comfortable choice. If you can afford the landing fees....
_________________ Bonanza 89 A36 Turbo Norm Grumman Tiger 78
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Post subject: Re: New M600 vs used TBM/PC12 Posted: 19 Jan 2021, 11:06 |
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Joined: 01/16/11 Posts: 11068 Post Likes: +7095 Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Aircraft: PC12NG, G3Tat
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Username Protected wrote: Compared to the PC 12, the M600 would be comparing a Hertz rental truck (without power steering  to a BMW X5. Maybe not quite that dramatic, but fly them back to back and you’ll get it what I’m saying. On the comments of Honeywell versus Garmin, there used to be a fella here with a PC 12NG and even after a thousand hours or so in the NG still lamented for his G1000. Which is a dinosaur compared to the G3000 in the M600. There is just no comparison. One is an iPhone, the other is a flip phone. But as far as carrying stuff long ways and safely, the PC 12 is awesome. Only the M600 has the auto land get out of jail free card, in addition to being completely envelope protected, including autopilot engagement if the pilot inadvertently gets out of control. For low time pilots, or pilots that don’t fly a lot of hours, those safety features really are something to consider. Maintenance in the M600 is essentially free for five years with piper ultimate, and fuel burn is typically 50 gallons the first hour, 40 gallons for subsequent hours and you’ll probably go annual to annual with no interim maintenance. If direct operating costs are important, the other two aircraft are not going to be in the same league. Geez I make one off color comment about Honeywell and Charles goes crazy!!!! I would bet that the operating costs are very similar between the M600 and the PC12. Only go with the M600 if hangar space is a problem. 
_________________ ---Rusty Shoe Keeper---
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Post subject: Re: New M600 vs used TBM/PC12 Posted: 19 Jan 2021, 15:39 |
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Joined: 09/16/10 Posts: 9012 Post Likes: +2065
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Username Protected wrote: Geez I make one off color comment about Honeywell and Charles goes crazy!!!! I would bet that the operating costs are very similar between the M600 and the PC12.
Panel reliability is huge. Especially if it pushes you into paying ;for a service plan. I would love a new PC12. But with my luck, a few months after delivery, they would come out with a G3000 panel. Last time I looked at the PC12 panel I thought it was overdue for some upgrading. Brighter, higher resolution displays and slightly larger fonts for some things like weather. And at that time, the panel was unable to display Canadian METARS or TAFORS, maybe other stuff, don't recall. I was told because the Canadian reports are coded differently. All I could think at the time (a few years ago) that for over a decade G1000 has no problems. Will this ever change? But makes the thing look like it is due for a nice upgrade. Maybe it is better now with the NGX, and I wouldn't need to run wires around and futz with an Ipad. I hope so. These things get to me. I probably don't have enough to do.  Like on a new KA and you get incandescent landing and nav lights. Has that changed yet, I hope.
_________________ Education cuts, don't heal.
Last edited on 19 Jan 2021, 15:45, edited 1 time in total.
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Post subject: Re: New M600 vs used TBM/PC12 Posted: 19 Jan 2021, 15:40 |
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Joined: 09/11/12 Posts: 129 Post Likes: +26 Location: Chicago, IL (KGYY)
Aircraft: 525A
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One thing to note: the M600 weighs in at 2721kg MGTW. That puts it into a higher insurance class in Europe (up to 2699kg, 3mm SDRs, 2721kg, 7mm SDRs -- roughly USD$4mm versus USD$10.5mm).
I spoke with Piper about issuing at 2699kg STC, similar to the 1999kg STC for the Meridian that gets it below the ATC fee threshold. They were amenable, but I stopped hounding them when it became clear our trip to Europe would be canceled due to COVID.
If you are interested in a new M600, might be worth flagging this as a possible area of concern.
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