One is a Suburban, the other, Corvette.

IIRC, if you can fit the A* in the door, the 500 will carry it.

Just a small correction--you're not anywhere near stall at 115mph (100KIAS) in level unaccelerated flight.

We have a 601P, and at gross Vref is in the high 90s. Most of us I think fly the pattern at around 120 KIAS, and slow to 100 or so on short final. Full flaps is an enormous amount of drag, so there's little or no penalty for being fast on final.

Full flaps is also the tricky part, because if you divert your attention and pull power or raise the nose the airplane will slow down very quickly when dirty. That's the reason you need to pay attention.

The blue line in a 601P is 109KIAS, Vxse is 100 KIAS

Vmc is 84 KIAS

The stall buffet is very pronounced at around 80 KIAS dirty--enough that the airplane was certified without a stall warning horn. Stall (and buffet) 9 knots higher when clean.

On the 600, wing extensions and winglets are a huge improvement on both takeoff and landing. There’s really no way to convey the before and after difference other than actually experiencing the before and after. It will definitely catch your attention, I assure you. The 600s also are on average 300 -500 lbs. lighter than the “P” models. Some of the later 700s are as much as 800 lbs. heavier.
As far as flaps go, to mirror what John has said, never full flaps until runway is made. It’s not that it can’t do it, it’s just not worth the risk and cleaning up the airplane afterwards.

Ive read every single thing he wrote. (I think). All excellent. Visited Argentina because of it.


Didn't play polo. and it was winter and I didn't eat steak from street side restaurants. but it was good.

If you haven't seen it, here is some hawt Aero Commander Action from the Feds....

[youtube]https://youtu.be/ipRdEQ73pH0[/youtube]

That’s a classic! The same lessons are valid today re: going into Phoenix on a dark night. Those hills are invisible.

I sold a Shrike to an Aerostar 600 owner today. We had a nice flight and the 500S knocked out 178 KTAS at 7500’ on similar 32-34gph that gave me 233 KTAS in the pressurized Aerostar last weekend at FL 190-210. He commented that the 500S was a lot faster than he thought it would be. And that it felt like a “heavy” airplane. FWIW.

Clearly the answer is to have one of each!

I might have told this story before, so forgive me, but whenever I was at the airport working/pre-flighting the Commander, people would always stop and talk. They always had a story - "my father flew one of these", "I flew cancelled checks as young kid in one of these" or "I took my multi in a Commander" etc. Everyone loves the Commanders somehow, people always wanna talk to you.

With the Aerostar, nobody stopped to talk. Not once. And if they did, it was always "did you sell the Commander?"

I actually think both are equally worth talking about, but there's something about Commanders that brings people out. They come out of the woodwork, somehow. I think because it's such an iconic utility machine, the same sentiments that get people excited about C185's and Cub's.

That's interesting. For the last several years, there has not been a single airport that I have gone into where at least one person has come up to me and either asked me, "is that my Aerostar" followed by a compliment, or, if they already knew because I was wearing my Aerostar shirt commented, "nice Aerostar" followed my more questions.

Not surprising given its detailed and pretty paint Tom. My last plane had a scheme along those lines, might have been the same designer, not sure, but it always got attention. I wanted to simply clean up the original green paint on my 601 but everyone thought I was nuts. So I gave up and now need to finish a design.

What Commander models have the shorter wing span? I think they went from 45’ to 49’ somewhere in there. My google results weren’t clearcut.

A 690 is 48’ and any practical piston model is almost 50’

Some early planes were less, but you’re in the warbird/antique category.

I wonder if that may have been an issue with "one" Aerostar 601P rather than the make/model as a whole. I have run all the basic pressurized Aerostar models including many many cycles in a box stock 601P at 5300 feet of elevation, hot and heavy included, with 3800 feet of runway. I don't remember ever breaking a sweat other than once or twice where there were bouts with "down air" in high winds or convective.

I would not think twice about a 3000 foot strip at gross weight in the summer in the midwest unless there was abnormal obstacle issues.

Kent,

I don't think we really disagree on the airplane's capabilities. Mine did not have boots and was fast, i.e. it would do exactly book. The time from lift off at 85 knots to the speed where I felt I had usable climb performance, simply made fields of less than 5.000' with any obstacles beyond my comfort point. I knew what to expect because I practiced single engine climbs accelerating from 95-110 knots. Needless to say, I did this at altitude. There are differing opinions and I don't "disrespect" them. I simply don't agree.

Jg

We used to have a 700 at 1D2 (Mettetal) - 2,301’ length.

I do appreciate the convenience of having your airplane nearby, but Willow Run is not that far away.

Doug,
Is Mettetal still there? I did some training there and Willow Run long ago.

Dave