10 May 2025, 20:46 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: SR-22G3, A36TN, 210TN Posted: 12 Apr 2019, 08:14 |
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Joined: 04/16/12 Posts: 7164 Post Likes: +12774 Location: Keller, TX (KFTW)
Aircraft: '68 36 (E-19)
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My take: A36 wins if you most value/need the loading utility of the barn doors and all that rear cargo space you can easily access, how a plane flies and "feels" to the PF, and don't mind that it's a plane that demands that you be proficient hand flying in IMC. 210 wins if you most value benign flying characteristics (most stabile IMC platform of the 3), like the better view to the ground, don't mind that it's not as easy to load as the A36, or as well built as the A36, and don't mind that it flies like a truck. And by this, I don't mean a Lambo Urus. Cirrus wins if you believe the chute is just too much safety protection to pass up, and you can find some way to get the stuff in it you want or need to travel with, accepting you will never have the loading flexibility or space offered by the other two. In short, you must fly each in order to make an informed decision. They are so different. One will either speak to you or they all won't and you can focus on other attributes. If I'm in your shoes, knowing what I know and knowing what I personally need and value, it'd be between the Bo and Cirrus. I'm sorry but I'm biased against Cessnas. I think they are junk compared to Bos and I'm spoiled flying the Bo and just hate the way they fly. Man, I'm gonna take a beating from the Cessna fans for that one!  And with two pro pilots in the front seats, I wouldn't be as concerned with the Cirrus and Bo being more demanding to fly in IMC. If I could find a way to fit everything I wanted to fly with, and be within W&B limits, I'd probably lean Cirrus because of the chute. My view is it's a game changer. Not everyone agrees. Fortunately, I'm not burdened by caring what everyone else thinks. Having said this, I've owned my 36 for 8 straight years despite regular looks at TN SRs because I use those big, beautiful barn doors so regularly I don't want to give them up. Even to get the chute. I also like having a sky high UL too (1300+ #s). But I don't need to take advantage of that very often. But nice to have for sure when I do need it.
_________________ Things are rarely what they seem, but they're always exactly what they are.
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Post subject: Re: SR-22G3, A36TN, 210TN Posted: 12 Apr 2019, 08:27 |
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Joined: 08/16/15 Posts: 3359 Post Likes: +4825 Location: Ogden UT
Aircraft: Piper M600
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If you guys are pro-pilots, flying the NW mountains with kids and dogs, personally that is a flight level mission, if you want some degree of dispatch reliability and safety. Those clouds over the Sierras and Cascades are super icy. Seems like a Malibu mission, and there are good ones in the 300K range if you hold out.
Now if you are retired, and can pick your times and weather, many more options and a non-pressurized plane works. I gave up trying to have any reasonable dispatch reliability in the West in my Cirrus. It was FIKI, but if the weather going out didn't give me heartburn, usually the weather coming back did. I went from the Cirrus to a Mirage and boy did the stress level of flight planning go way down.
_________________ Chuck Ivester Piper M600 Ogden UT
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Post subject: Re: SR-22G3, A36TN, 210TN Posted: 14 Apr 2019, 21:30 |
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Joined: 01/30/12 Posts: 653 Post Likes: +78 Location: KFCI Richmond, VA
Aircraft: C55 Baron
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I just moved up from an A36 to a C55 Baron. I have been very happy with the transition. I wanted an airplane that I could comfortably load 4 guys, bags and clubs without issues. My A36 didn't have the GW increase and so UL was 600 lbs less than the Baron. I also didn't like takeoff with the A36 loaded. It was very sluggish and honestly made me anxious.
You can find a nice Baron for way less than your budget and use the rest of the money for whatever you want. The Baron will do everything you want and feels more comfortable in turbulence. Operating expenses aren't that significantly different than an A36 or a Cirrus.
I had Neal Schwartz sell my plane and he also brokered the C55 I purchased. He will take very good care of you.
Good luck.
PK
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Post subject: Re: SR-22G3, A36TN, 210TN Posted: 14 Apr 2019, 23:30 |
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Joined: 12/12/17 Posts: 387 Post Likes: +154
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I recently went through this same issue. I have 3 kids (11, 9, 6) + wife and needed 6 seats so A36/B36/210/206/Saratoga. I flew each one and had my budget been bigger I would have settled on a B36TC. Why a B36TC - has the Baron wing and 102 gallons of fuel (no tip tanks needed). Can be upgraded to the TN-IO-550. That would make an AMAZING airplane - decent useful load, high altitude wing, built in oxygen, rear baggage compartment, and a TN-550 If you are going pressurized, my family owned a P210 growing up (1983) and my step dad really wanted a Malibu but couldn't afford one. Even the late Richard Collins said the Malibu was what the P210 should have been and his favorite airplane was a Bonanza - https://airfactsjournal.com/2012/02/13-questions-for-richard-collins/ If you want a Malibu, this guy seems to know a lot - http://flycasey.com/ and here is a good article on the Malibu https://flycasey.com/1984-88-malibu-general-analysis/I ended up with a Normally Aspirated 210, mostly due to budget (my budget stopped at $150) and my experience in the Cessna family (172, 182). A good B36TC will run you north of 200, and they are hard to find, you need to wait. Neal Schwartz or Bob Stephens are great resources for those (Bob helped me with my airplane, but I also talked with Neal a lot as well). The 210s are nice, I like mine, but it flies like my Chevy Silverado drives. And it isn't really that fast - 155kts at 10k burning 14 GPH. I can carry 1,550 lbs, so that helps, but I have never come close to that. My family combined with full fuel we get to 1,050 lbs. They are also getting harder to find parts for. My stepdad bought a salvage P210 in 1993 so he could have parts available. Just my 2 cents........If I had more $$$$ - B36TC for me.
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Post subject: Re: SR-22G3, A36TN, 210TN Posted: 14 Apr 2019, 23:57 |
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Joined: 01/16/11 Posts: 11068 Post Likes: +7094 Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Aircraft: PC12NG, G3Tat
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Username Protected wrote: If you guys are pro-pilots, flying the NW mountains with kids and dogs, personally that is a flight level mission, if you want some degree of dispatch reliability and safety. Those clouds over the Sierras and Cascades are super icy. Seems like a Malibu mission, and there are good ones in the 300K range if you hold out.
I'm with Charles here.........I'd even say go turbine and get a Meridian..........pressuriziation is just a game changer.
_________________ ---Rusty Shoe Keeper---
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Post subject: Re: SR-22G3, A36TN, 210TN Posted: 15 Apr 2019, 01:23 |
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Joined: 04/16/08 Posts: 743 Post Likes: +633 Location: Nevada City, CA
Aircraft: Baron 55 w/550s
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A B model 421 will save you a ton of money, handle the routes you need when you want to go, no O2 for the kids, and yes, take the dogs along.
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Post subject: Re: SR-22G3, A36TN, 210TN Posted: 15 Apr 2019, 10:52 |
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Joined: 03/01/09 Posts: 1287 Post Likes: +137 Company: Red Hawk Location: TVC - Traverse City, MI
Aircraft: 2014 RV7A
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Username Protected wrote: If you guys are pro-pilots, flying the NW mountains with kids and dogs, personally that is a flight level mission, if you want some degree of dispatch reliability and safety. Those clouds over the Sierras and Cascades are super icy. Seems like a Malibu mission, and there are good ones in the 300K range if you hold out.
I'm with Charles here.........I'd even say go turbine and get a Meridian..........pressuriziation is just a game changer.
Cool, send me a list of those Turbines in the $300K range. I’m all in.
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Post subject: Re: SR-22G3, A36TN, 210TN Posted: 15 Apr 2019, 12:31 |
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Joined: 12/16/09 Posts: 366 Post Likes: +162 Location: Snohomish, WA
Aircraft: PA-27 Turbo
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Mountain flying with weather. Needs lots of cubes for loading?
Turbo Aztec.
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Post subject: Re: SR-22G3, A36TN, 210TN Posted: 15 Apr 2019, 12:43 |
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Joined: 11/06/13 Posts: 421 Post Likes: +260 Location: KFTW-Fort Worth Meacham
Aircraft: C208B, AL18-115
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I was very disappointed with the B36TC I co-owned. Paltry useful load (400 lbs with full fuel) made it a two person airplane. It could not climb well in the summer without the cylinder heads over heating. It was a runway hog and the speed/fuel burn were disappointing in the non-oxygen altitudes. Maybe the 550TN solves these problems (I suspect it does), but I found the stock airplane to be wanting. The T210 has much more utility.
This is not a knock on all Bonanzas, I just think that Beech did not get the engine installation right of the B36TC.
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Post subject: Re: SR-22G3, A36TN, 210TN Posted: 15 Apr 2019, 13:12 |
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Joined: 03/05/14 Posts: 2877 Post Likes: +2945 Company: WA Aircraft Location: Fort Worth, TX (T67)
Aircraft: 1969 Bonanza E33C
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Username Protected wrote: This is not a knock on all Bonanzas, I just think that Beech did not get the engine installation right of the B36TC. Thats why the TN IO-550 is an awesome upgrade. For the OP: 58P
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Post subject: Re: SR-22G3, A36TN, 210TN Posted: 23 Apr 2019, 08:03 |
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Joined: 05/14/18 Posts: 25 Post Likes: +5 Location: Jacksonville, FL
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Definitely consider a pressurized single (Malibu) but it’s a step up from the three planes you’re looking at.
T210 might be the easier of the 210s to find and if you go back to 1977 T210M model with the gear doors and well sorted engine, you’ll find it can do 170+kt @ 10-12k at 65% power LOP 14.5-14.7 gph. See attached from last weekend.
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Post subject: Re: SR-22G3, A36TN, 210TN Posted: 23 Apr 2019, 11:34 |
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Joined: 03/01/09 Posts: 1287 Post Likes: +137 Company: Red Hawk Location: TVC - Traverse City, MI
Aircraft: 2014 RV7A
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Username Protected wrote: Definitely consider a pressurized single (Malibu) but it’s a step up from the three planes you’re looking at.
T210 might be the easier of the 210s to find and if you go back to 1977 T210M model with the gear doors and well sorted engine, you’ll find it can do 170+kt @ 10-12k at 65% power LOP 14.5-14.7 gph. See attached from last weekend. Whoa, if I saw that TAS in my old TN A36 at 10,000’ I’d be checking to see if I forgot to put the gear up. 
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Post subject: Re: SR-22G3, A36TN, 210TN Posted: 23 Apr 2019, 11:55 |
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Joined: 05/13/14 Posts: 8926 Post Likes: +7369 Location: Central Texas (KTPL)
Aircraft: PA-46-310P
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Username Protected wrote: If you are seriously considering travelling with kids, look at a P210 or a Malibu. Pressurization is a game changer. Great idea. In your price range, you can reach a Malibu. If you can hangar it, that seems like a fantastic option. I love the A36, but mine lacks a/c and pressurization. I can add A/C for the cost of a year of college, but I can't add pressurization.
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