I remember about 15 years ago or so reading about the Cirrus for the first time in some pilot magazine. I was in my early 20's and thought it was amazing. I remember going out to the airport and talking to some pilot friends all in their 50's, 60's +. They laughed at me as I talked about this airplane with a chute. They told me it was stupid, plastic planes won't last, it would never sell. Being the young gun I just shut up and never brought it up again. To this day I don't know why every certified plane manufacture does not incorporate the chute into their new designs. Forget about how you feel about it, or how useful you think it is. The chute sells lots of airplanes you can't argue with that. Until others start adding the chute, the SR-20's and SR-22's will continue to dominate the market.

The chute sells.....

And the only plane uglier with the gear down than the SR22 is the TTX.

It isn't surprising at all. In the first place Cirrus works really hard to sell airplanes with a well paid, highly motivated sales team backed up by their marketing. Textron, the years I was going to Airventure to look could hardly be bothered. There is a thread about that on here from 2011-2012 time frame.

Test flying the airplane sold it to me. My pirep on that experience is here somewhere. Some people don't like the way it flies. But a lot do. I'm one of those. And the safety features built into the plane are great selling features. In addition to the chute.

Oh, the chute. It's hard to believe every SE airframe doesn't offer it.

The owners of Cirrus airplanes sell more of them than they do. Owners that don't or didn't love their planes are hard to find. One of the other things that they generally rave about is the support they receive(d) from Cirrus. I certainly think that way.

The factory trip. Yeah I did that too. Another reason Cirrus outsells (sold) Textron. Spreadsheets? Got 'em.

The funny thing is, when you talk to Dale, Patrick or any of their sales team they will all tell you they wished other manufacturers sold more planes. They get the value of competition and would relish a competitor. Textron hasn't been one for a very long time.

I'll probably never own another Cirrus as I'm going in a different direction but if I was going to buy another SE piston aircraft for transportation it would be a Cirrus.

They would look a little Cooler, if the Gear Folded Up

Bonanza Cool? Not to Me............But to the Younger Crowd?

you are buying into a lifestyle and a culture when you purchase a Cirrus. You are buying into an old folks home when you buy a Textron product ( I love Cessna and Beechcraft, but the truth hurts sometimes).

"Old folk's home"?

Dang, Doug, that hurts......(maybe true....but painful).

Love the Bonanza and the Baron....

So what’s wrong with “old folks home”.

I’ll be happily in my antique 58 flying from FMY to CRG this morning. I am sipping my Geritrol and coffee as I type in hopes that it keeps my infirm brain and appendages firm.

Tom W
N58GW

From an image, marketing and perception perspective you are dead nuts right. Probably the most succinct and accurate two sentences about the contrasts between the two.

But from a performance perspective, at least when it comes to the Baron, I would disagree.
For our mission, you can't beat the combination of performance, economy and stability.
It's how I get to work. Trips are between 150nm and 600nm, with 300 pretty typical.

Plane is great in nearly all kinds of Northeast/New England weather. Is, in my opinion, more solid in cross winds. Have been is a Cirrus and a Baron when in gusty cross winds... I know which one I prefer. Very reliable and a hoot to fly. Nothing like two engines spinning on a clear cold New England morning. Performance & fun factor is great.

But, to your point, Textron cannot get out of its own way when it comes to making upgrades and marketing their piston products. Not sure if it is apathy, incompetence, or some combination of the two. On the other hand, on an individual basis, all of the Textron sales and support folks with whom I have had contact have been super. But you are right, from a perception & marketing basis, it is like stepping back in time to a Brylcreem or Oldsmobile commercial.

Maybe they just don't care about the piston lines. Maybe the $$ aren't there. That's ok, but then sell them off to someone who will do something. Or pick one or two models on which you will focus relentlessly and upgrade. Don't just let them die.

I'm sorry, but whatever you do to Baron or Bonanza line, it will still not work for Textron. It's a 70 year old airframe, and we can doll it up with all glass, all parachute, all whatever - the underlying facts are there. Only thing would be to develop a brand new Bonanza, carbon fibre, that's a new grounds up design. But who thinks Textron would do that to maybe sell 60 airframes a year?

The sad truth is we're at the end of the road for old legacy designs. Doesn't mean we can't enjoy the old ones!

Cirrus certainly sells lifestyle, no question about that. But to imply, and I'm not saying that is what Doug is doing, that lifestyle is what all the Cirrus buyers are buying is to miss a lot of the reasons people buy the airplane. I bought mine because I was impressed with how it flew, how comfortable it was, how easy it was to own and operate, how well the systems were integrated, all of the safety systems in the plane, the incredible service ad support reputation of Cirrus (proved out in my case), and - oh yes - the chute...

What I got when I bought the Cirrus was an amazing improvement to my "lifestyle" because my wife, and children, were willing to fly with me which opened up a new world to us. I didn't buy for that reason but it was an incredible benefit. Now my family flies, at will, all over the country and I get to be the pilot. Thank you Cirrus!

Look at what happens at Oshkosh at the Cirrus display and tent.
It always has an excellent looking well planned area. Not like someone just drove a few available planes on to the grass and just parked them there. They have music playing at all times, their sales personnel come out to you for meet and greet. You do not have to go looking for a representative. Want to sit in the cockpit of the Vision Jet mockup? sure come on in. There is a dinner on the grounds for their customers and usually a band or musician to play. The whole area of their display is open and inviting. Every person is treated like a potential buyer, and at OSH you never know, any person may be that next buyer. Many people who attend OSH intentionally dress down to get some free time. I have heard that Presidents of some of the companies also do that for a walk about.
Merchandising ? Just about whatever you want with the Cirrus logo or "The Cirrus Life" emblazoned upon it.
Cirrus is- Veni, Vidi, Vici. and they mean it

now compare that to the others

I'm glad you brought this up because Oshkosh is a perfect example. Cirrus and Textron are across from eachother. Cirrus booth is slammed with folks looking at SR22's and SF50's. Nobody is in the Textron booth looking at the TTX. In fact, the only TTX I saw at Oshkosh was in the Textron display.

I will say that Textron's sales people have been very welcoming, accomodating and helpful when talking about the KA250 and M2. It's obvious that is because it's what they want to sell and see as the future of the their company. I think they long ago gave up on the idea of being really seriously competitive in the higher end SE piston market and their behavior has reflected that. Anyone who wants a new Bonanza would be well advised to place an order quickly in my opinion.

Cirrus continues to improve their product, year after year, and their marketing - the others not so much.

I have a friend with an early steam gauge Cirrus - the plane is already awesome, very comfortable and fast, and the idea that you can't fly 200 miles loaded without gas is ludicrous.

I test drove an Acclaim - felt like a very nicely made coffin. Way too claustrophobic for me. The new ones with the pilot door seem much improved.

The differences between the TTX and Cirrus are negligable - except for the ONE thing that tons of people still say doesn't, couldn't, shouldn't, can't possibly, only if you're incompetent or stupid, matter.

I would never buy the exact same thing for the same price without the one thing that might save my family someday, and would make my wife happier everyday.

I think in five years there will be two left - 172/182's and Cirri.

It could also be because they've already vetted you.

Many years ago, I sold cars. I sold a lot of cars. I never pre-judged whether someone could afford a car - just went and tried to sell them one. Many of the other salesman (my competition) would see someone and make an excuse: "I've got to, um, make a quick phone call. You go ahead and take this one and I'll catch the next up (customer)." So I talked to a lot more people.

One of those guys literally got off a bus in front of the dealer. Turns out he was an old farmer and had a box full of cash. He took the bus because he knew he was buying a car for his wife, and he'd drive that home. I sold him a new Camry, when it wasn't my "up".

Cirrus talks to all the ups as if they can buy a new $850k plane.