BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 30 Jan 2018, 07:33

Username Protected wrote:

Garmin will continue to dominate the world. There's no stopping it now.

People thought the same about Bendix King in 1995.

In 5 years, they went from 80% of the market to 20%.

If you don't keep running when you are in front, you won't be in front for long.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 30 Jan 2018, 07:35

Username Protected wrote:

I pay less than $6,000 per year for a dual FMS PL21 subscription in a CJ4 so I don't know where you got those numbers from.

HoneyWell APEX in the Pilatus is only $1700 per year.

I'd love to know the real cost of the CJ's as they're on my shopping list./

Username Protected · **Posted:** 30 Jan 2018, 08:23

Im in line for the G1000 NXi upgrade in march/april 2018.
I get the latest from GARMIN with a 3 year warranty.
US, Canada, Mexico and the Carabeens PILOT PAK BY JEPPS IS $1230/YEAR.

Username Protected wrote:

With the PL21 or G1000 a buyer needs to get into the details of what he is buying and what support is available. A lot depends on who controls the avionics certification for your airframe.

PL21 has higher Total Cost of Ownership. DBs are more expensive and parts are pricey. There are few functional upgrades. What you see is what you get. PL21 has synvis but it is not certified on all platforms.

G1000 comes in many flavors. Garmin pushed out new functions but they don’t become available until they are certified for your airframe. G1000 has more quirks (bugs) then PL21 and Garmin pushes out fixes over time.

Example, the G1000 in the CJ done by Cessna. Cessna has said the software is frozen and there will be no functional enhancements or NXI upgrade. Ever!

PL21 and G1000 are legacy avionics now. Collins and Garmin are putting their future efforts into PL Fusion and G1000NXI.

Nothing wrong with legacy avionics as long as the buyer understands what they have.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 30 Jan 2018, 10:01

Username Protected wrote:

Worldwide Rockwell Collins is in the region of $14,320 per year.
US & Canada $10,200 per annum

Garmin is $1,172 per annum for the US best package, and $1,334 for the International equivalent.

So from a purely annual subscription basis, RC is 8.5x to 10x the cost of Garmin.

Capital outlay on the upgrades are within hand grenade range of each other. Appear to be in the $350,000 to $360,000 range. Annual subscription costs are substantially different.

I pay less than $6,000 per year for a dual FMS PL21 subscription in a CJ4 so I don't know where you got those numbers from.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 30 Jan 2018, 10:06

Username Protected wrote:

Garmin will continue to dominate the world. There's no stopping it now.

People thought the same about Bendix King in 1995.

In 5 years, they went from 80% of the market to 20%.

If you don't keep running when you are in front, you won't be in front for long.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 30 Jan 2018, 10:06

Does anyone have any recent experience having to replace a PFD/MFD panel on a ProLine system or G1000 out of warranty? Costs? I've heard horror stories but nothing first hand.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 30 Jan 2018, 13:17

We just replaced one on a CJ1, it was covered by ProParts but I think it would have been like $28k

Username Protected · **Posted:** 30 Jan 2018, 14:08

Username Protected wrote:

We just replaced one on a CJ1, it was covered by ProParts but I think it would have been like $28k

That would get your attention. Certainly a good case to be made to consider ProParts.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 30 Jan 2018, 14:11

Garmin as flat rate on PFD/MFD and is a lot cheaper. $2-3000 max for a PFD/MFD.
Maybe Trek can fill in for an exact price.

I had a PFD replaced under warranty.

Username Protected wrote:

Does anyone have any recent experience having to replace a PFD/MFD panel on a ProLine system or G1000 out of warranty? Costs? I've heard horror stories but nothing first hand.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 30 Jan 2018, 14:16

Username Protected wrote:

We just replaced one on a CJ1, it was covered by ProParts but I think it would have been like $28k

It is often the power supply that fails in a PL21 panel. If you can take the downtime it can be sent out for repair to a place like Duncan and cost a few AMU.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 30 Jan 2018, 14:19

Username Protected wrote:

We just replaced one on a CJ1, it was covered by ProParts but I think it would have been like $28k

That would get your attention. Certainly a good case to be made to consider ProParts.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 30 Jan 2018, 14:23

Username Protected wrote:

We just replaced one on a CJ1, it was covered by ProParts but I think it would have been like $28k

Collins has a fixed annual service program for all Collins avionics in the aircraft that can be more economical then ProParts.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 30 Jan 2018, 15:28

Username Protected wrote:

We just replaced one on a CJ1, it was covered by ProParts but I think it would have been like $28k

$ 25,364.00 from Textron

Andrew

Username Protected · **Posted:** 30 Jan 2018, 17:46

If you think so you do not understand how Proparts works. Good chance the owner is paying for that, just spread over time.[/quote]

I get it Allen. Nothing but an insurance policy. Not for everyone. Not realistic I suppose but have a bad year and have to replace a PFD or two, it will make you take notice. A safer bet is to go without ProParts I'm sure, but If I was buying a CJ1 or bigger with PL21, I might consider it.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 30 Jan 2018, 17:53

Does anyone have any concerns with the fully integrated digital pressurization in the modern Garmin (and other) products for those of you flying such birds?

What happens if the fancy computer turns off?

It seems that question needs to be asked when everything under the sun is integrated into one of these systems and some of those things are not easily replaced by off-the-shelf avionics in the future...

So it begs the question what happens if said Avionics firm exits the market or stops support of a particular model line? It would seem the more integrated you go the more you are betting the house (plane, first born, etc) that support will be there 10,20, 30 years down the line. If not then the plane (and your equity) could turn into a pumpkin in a hurry...

I do agree Garmin seems to be the future, and other than cost I would consider them to be a fairly benevolent dictator... for now...

Next airplane... Proline 21 or G1000?