BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 Dec 2017, 22:51

Username Protected wrote:

VMCA is 93 kts based on the FAA certification requirement conditions, aft cg, gross weight etc. I rotate at 95kts so during an engine failure at nose wheel liftoff you are already above VMCA.

It will be real interesting if you have only 2 knots margin to Vmc and an engine quits. Going to require immediate, correct, and essentially full rudder. A little crosswind and you might not have enough rudder even being just above Vmc.

Amusingly, my Vmc is also 93 knots, I rotate 103 knots. Seems strange the Commander with that long and huge tail can't do a lower Vmc.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 22 Dec 2017, 01:06

It’s actually 83 knots indicated on most but let’s not let facts get in the way.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 22 Dec 2017, 01:15

Username Protected wrote:

It’s actually 83 knots

That seems more like I would expect given the geometry of the airframe.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 22 Dec 2017, 03:07

Username Protected wrote:

VMCA is 93 kts based on the FAA certification requirement conditions, aft cg, gross weight etc. I rotate at 95kts so during an engine failure at nose wheel liftoff you are already above VMCA.

It will be real interesting if you have only 2 knots margin to Vmc and an engine quits. Going to require immediate, correct, and essentially full rudder. A little crosswind and you might not have enough rudder even being just above Vmc.

Amusingly, my Vmc is also 93 knots, I rotate 103 knots. Seems strange the Commander with that long and huge tail can't do a lower Vmc.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 22 Dec 2017, 10:27

Username Protected wrote:

It’s a unnecessary burden on the MU-2 pilot to remember all those different speeds and flap configuration.

Ah, Commanders are for people who can't handle using flaps, for simple folk.

It probably upsets Commander pilots that stall speeds change with flaps. How annoying!

Clearly, no Commander pilot should ever transition to a jet. Way too many numbers to know...

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 22 Dec 2017, 11:36

Username Protected wrote:

Narcos' favorite soft field, high payload, aircraft

Something has to off set the op X.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 22 Dec 2017, 12:51

Username Protected wrote:

It’s a unnecessary burden on the MU-2 pilot to remember all those different speeds and flap configuration.

Ah, Commanders are for people who can't handle using flaps, for simple folk.

It probably upsets Commander pilots that stall speeds change with flaps. How annoying!

Clearly, no Commander pilot should ever transition to a jet. Way too many numbers to know...

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 22 Dec 2017, 16:12

That's my style out of Catalina. The runway could use some care.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 22 Dec 2017, 22:03

Username Protected wrote:

That's my style out of Catalina. The runway could use some care.

Understatement of the year! :bow:

Dave

Username Protected · **Posted:** 22 Dec 2017, 22:22

Username Protected wrote:

The Commander does it with a clean wing.

What’s amusing is how many different VMC speeds the MU-2 has?

Is that 93knot VMC for a clean wing no way can’t be, maybe with 5 degrees of flap, no it’s must be at 20degrees of flap?

There are too many speeds to remember! It’s only a TP why the complexity? TP are supposed to be simple.

It’s a unnecessary burden on the MU-2 pilot to remember all those different speeds and flap configuration. The same performance is available in a Commander and other TP with none of that BS.

That is one of the many reasons why the MU-2 requires continuous specialized training.

Just for fun here are some amusing numbers,

VYSE clean for the MU-2 150kts

For the Commander only 113 kts

Or

SE rate of climb MU-2 450fpm

Commander 1000fpm

I'm just a simple twin piston driver, but I have 3 different Vmc's for 3 different flap settings. I never knew it was such a big deal. Guess I'm ready for a jet! :dancing:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 23 Dec 2017, 03:18

Username Protected wrote:

The Commander does it with a clean wing.

What’s amusing is how many different VMC speeds the MU-2 has?

Is that 93knot VMC for a clean wing no way can’t be, maybe with 5 degrees of flap, no it’s must be at 20degrees of flap?

There are too many speeds to remember! It’s only a TP why the complexity? TP are supposed to be simple.

It’s a unnecessary burden on the MU-2 pilot to remember all those different speeds and flap configuration. The same performance is available in a Commander and other TP with none of that BS.

That is one of the many reasons why the MU-2 requires continuous specialized training.

Just for fun here are some amusing numbers,

VYSE clean for the MU-2 150kts

For the Commander only 113 kts

Or

SE rate of climb MU-2 450fpm

Commander 1000fpm

I'm just a simple twin piston driver, but I have 3 different Vmc's for 3 different flap settings. I never knew it was such a big deal. Guess I'm ready for a jet! :dancing:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 23 Dec 2017, 11:48

It is intuitively obvious, even to the laypilot, that this dyslexic aviator was doing a reduced power takeoff using a temp of 578 instead of 875 and rotated at 59 instead of 95. :thumbup:

That reminds me of the story of the confused Aggie student pilot that bent the airplane on his first solo. The instructor, upon getting out of the airplane, reminded the student to turn into the wind as soon as he broke ground.

On takeoff the confused student broke wind first and then turned into the ground.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 26 Dec 2017, 01:05

Username Protected wrote:

Maybe ease up on the back pressure until she's ready to fly?

[youtube]http://youtu.be/rZ4QfAluHBU[/youtube]

Why? What's wrong here?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 26 Dec 2017, 02:22

Username Protected wrote:

Maybe ease up on the back pressure until she's ready to fly?

[youtube]http://youtu.be/rZ4QfAluHBU[/youtube]

Why? What's wrong here?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 26 Dec 2017, 16:24

Username Protected wrote:

It was amateur hour for sure.

This was before UPS pilots were UPS pilots.

UPS subcontracted their flying and the pay for pilots was pathetic no matter what you were flying.

They got what they paid for that day!

"Before UPS pilots were UPS pilots"

Many of the initial hire at UPS were the contract pilots that had been flying their planes for them, and became the senior UPS pilots, except for the Ipex ( International Parcel Express) pilots, UPS's initial airline operating certificate.

The erratic DC-8 takeoff could have been a 3-engine ferry, and if so, they never should have let themselves be rushed. 3-engine takeoff on a DC-8 is not a piece of cake, and has to be done very carefully. There have been fatal crashes of DC-8's improperly attempting it, but it can be done safely.

How not to takeoff in a Turbo Commander