Sidebar:
Pilatus and Williams International have been touting two interesting features; Passive Thrust Vectoring and Quiet Power Mode–of the FJ44-4A turbofan on the PC-24 but the engine manufacturer is scarce on details. The thrust vector from the exhaust nozzle varies as a function of engine operating conditions; power setting, exhaust gas temperature, Mach number and altitude.

The quiet power mode enables an engine to be used like an auxiliary power unit (APU) on the ground, providing electric power and bleed air. The theory is this mode has only the high-pressure spool running, keeping the low-pressure shaft (and thus the fan) still. How does that work?

The noise signature of the Quiet Power Mode is reported to be less offensive than typical APUs and much cheaper to purchase and maintain compared to a traditional APU. Williams says the development testing is complete.

The contract document says it is TAP Blue.

The exclusions list contain:

"corrosion requiring component replacement outside of a Major Periodic Inspection"

If your corrosion requires service prior to 5000 hours, its on you. TAP Blue does seem to cover corrosion found at MPI.


CJP post from someone who had a starter/generator go bad and trashed the engine gear box. Williams didn't cover that despite being on TAP. This is an airframe part added to the engine, thus excluded in the contract.

"Items attached to the Engine by the airframe manufacturer,"

Mike C.

Mike, like most business it was negotiated. Williams did maintenance over the life of the lost engines. Basically the value of the maintenance performed was negotiated and deducted from the paid in balance and the rest he was credited to the new plane.

It seemed like a fair deal for all parties. This seems to be the resolution to Williams issues. You can't cover every business situation in contract language.

Williams wants peoples business. As much as you say there is no choice, Williams knows the marketplace does have choice. This includes Textron, Embraer, Cirrus, and Pilatus deciding what engine to hang on their next airframe. They are much bigger customer then you or me. If Williams does not treat the aircraft owners ethically their engines will stop being used by the manufacturers. P&W would love to get that business.

Educational thread for this lowly piston pilot.

So it costs AT LEAST $550K per engine to overhaul. What percentage of that is parts vs. labor? Is there a hefty margin in that price? Just seems like a huge expense to replace some rotors and other machine parts.

That is covered by Proparts. SG is not a Williams supplied part.

Mike,

There's a CJ1 here in Texas, 100% JSSI

Sub $1M

I'll send you the broker's number if you are interested.

The contract document says it is TAP Blue.

The exclusions list contain:

"corrosion requiring component replacement outside of a Major Periodic Inspection"

If your corrosion requires service prior to 5000 hours, its on you. TAP Blue does seem to cover corrosion found at MPI.

Is the gearbox covered by Proparts?

Mike: I appreciate you taking the time to bring out the other side of things
We all have to put this into perspective and the marketing folks make a lot of noise to cut through. I guess there's a place for these, but I like the P&W alternative for many of the reasons you brought out. It sure fits Allen and some others.

Is the gearbox covered by Proparts?

CJ1 doesn't have the range Mike wants. He needs a CJ3/4.

Outside of HSI/OH, that's relatively small effort, nozzle cleaning, oil samples, oil filter, etc. Turbine engine need exceptionally little servicing in general.


Without the actual numbers, hard to judge that.


Not clear that is true. The manufacturers would like old airplanes to be retired and replaced with new ones.

I think jacking up HSI and OH costs artificially to make program costs less is unethical.

Williams gives the manufacturers a heck of a deal on new engines. At what they charge for the program, they really should give the engine for free. It is really a "thrust as a service" model.

Mike C.

Where it converts the high speed rotation of the engine turbine parts to usable RPMs for accessories such as starter/generator, FCU, etc.


Not if the airframe accessory causes the damage.

SG goes bad and damages engine gear box. Proparts doesn't pay for engine gearbox. Williams says gearbox damage caused by accessory thus not in their contract. Owner pays.

The net result is that not all "engine" faults are covered under TAP.

Mike C.

You are entitled to your opinion.

You have any facts behind that statement?

And where do you get that conclusion from?

Do you know any engine that has had that issue and been handled that way?