BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 22 May 2016, 17:44

You conquest II guys kill me. Talk about envy. Your machines rock

Username Protected · **Posted:** 22 May 2016, 18:11

Username Protected wrote:

You conquest II guys kill me. Talk about envy. Your machines rock

Exactly!

Username Protected · **Posted:** 22 May 2016, 18:55

Username Protected wrote:

Martti,
Your fuel burn seems a little high compared to what I usually see. I usually see around 400 lbs (60GPH) around FL310. At FL350 it is more like the mid 300 lbs/HR, sometimes down to 46GPH. Have you calibrated the Shadin during many top-offs? On the forum of C90 versus 250, I see the 250 uses 530 lbs/HR at FL310 burning 80GPH, and 270KTS. I wonder how that would compare to a Conquest at same speed? I might find out tomorrow

You're right Max. I was riding the temp limiters:) I could have pulled back a bit and gotten the FF lower. This was 45 min. Into a max gross takeoff and it was warm.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 22 May 2016, 23:55

Username Protected wrote:

Your fuel burn seems a little high compared to what I usually see.

I was thinking the same thing.

The 441 -10 supplement says, for FL350, ISA, fuel flow 372 lbs/hr, 55.5 GPH, 306 KTAS at mid cruise weight. Warmer is less, colder is more, naturally.

For long range cruise power, same conditions, fuel flow 310 lbs/hr, 46.3 GPH, 259 KTAS.

Quote:

On the forum of C90 versus 250, I see the 250 uses 530 lbs/HR at FL310 burning 80GPH, and 270KTS.

download/file.php?id=143219&mode=view

To be fair, this was 530 lbs/hr, ISA+10, 283 KTAS.

King Air is getting 3.58 nm/gal for 79.1 GPH and 283 KTAS.

441 at FL310, ISA+10, mid cruise weight:

MCT: 422 lbs/hr, 63.0 GPH, 305 KTAS, 4.84 nm/gal

LRC: 335 lbs/hr, 50.0 GPH, 259 KTAS, 5.18 nm/gal.

Numbers from 441 -10 supplement.

If we hold FL310, ISA+10, and 283 KTAS constant for both airplanes, then the King Air is burning 79.1 GPH and I interpolate the 441 is burning 56.8 GPH. Same performance for 22 GPH less.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 23 May 2016, 00:35

The Garrett engines are good but don't forget the King air weighs more.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 23 May 2016, 00:39

Yes, the C90 is a thousand pound heavier! (With a much smaller cabin and luggage room, and holding less fuel). Size wise the 441 is more like the 90, but capability wise more than the 200/250......

Username Protected · **Posted:** 23 May 2016, 00:40

Username Protected wrote:

The Garrett engines are good but don't forget the King air weighs more.

Due to the extra fuel it has to carry because it burns more, and because it is fat and heavy.

Typical useful load 441 and KA250 is about the same, ~3800 lbs.

441 is burning 150-200 lbs less fuel per hour.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 23 May 2016, 00:42

I thought mikes numbers were for a king air 250? Was that not the comparison?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 23 May 2016, 00:48

Username Protected wrote:

I thought mikes numbers were for a king air 250? Was that not the comparison?

Yes, it was.

The root issue is the KA250 is 2000 lbs heavier empty weight, which means no actual increase in useful load, and it burns more fuel lbs/hr, too.

And it is slower.

But other than that, it is comparable. :-)

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 23 May 2016, 00:59

Username Protected wrote:

The Garrett engines are good but don't forget the King air weighs more.

Due to the extra fuel it has to carry because it burns more, and because it is fat and heavy.

Typical useful load 441 and KA250 is about the same, ~3800 lbs.

441 is burning 150-200 lbs less fuel per hour.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 23 May 2016, 10:58

The King Air 250 is like a really classy woman. Shes not really fast but she will eventually get there and look stunning when she does. The 441 is like the wild girl in college. Shes not much to look at, but she will get you there fast and cheap!

Username Protected · **Posted:** 23 May 2016, 11:38

The knig air 250 is lots of things but slow is not one of them.

She is definitely a classy lady who has gotten a little wide the hips!

Username Protected · **Posted:** 23 May 2016, 11:51

Username Protected wrote:

The knig air 250 is lots of things but slow is not one of them.

She is definitely a classy lady who has gotten a little wide the hips!

I am a huge King Air fan and just to be clear, I didnt say she was slow, I just said shes not really fast ( compared to the 441). But in the classy department, its no contest. The King Air wins every time. Its just really sad when a plane gets to the point that it can legally only carry one very light pilot with full fuel. That is totally unacceptable. I cant believe a company would let that go out the door. I would be embarrassed.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 23 May 2016, 12:00

just looked up the KA 250 specs on the Beechcraft website. Full fuel payload is 115 lbs.
That is ridiculous. Why would anyone even bother to publish that number? Unless you are a jockey that flies by yourself with no luggage, you cant fill the dang tanks! Really?? Come on!! Why not just install smaller tanks?
I must be missing something. How can you market something with 10 seats, knowing that if you filled up those seats, the plane will only hold 300 gallons of fuel. Thats 2 hours with IFR reserves. Is that a mission that anyone would pay $6million to fill?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 23 May 2016, 12:04

Username Protected wrote:

The knig air 250 is lots of things but slow is not one of them.

She is definitely a classy lady who has gotten a little wide the hips!

I am a huge King Air fan and just to be clear, I didnt say she was slow, I just said shes not really fast ( compared to the 441). But in the classy department, its no contest. The King Air wins every time. Its just really sad when a plane gets to the point that it can legally only carry one very light pilot with full fuel. That is totally unacceptable. I cant believe a company would let that go out the door. I would be embarrassed.

Cessna 441 copilot time