A disclaimer, if you fly a Citation V 1960nm like Wikipedia says... you will be dead.

The certification basis is clearly spelled out in the TCDS. There are the usual collection of minor exemptions, ELOS and special conditions, but fundamentally the Citation was certified to part 25 standards.

If you have any evidence the Citations prior to the V were certified to watered down requirements, please present that.


The 560 is a stretched version of an S550, with boots instead of TKS, with higher output engines. That's pretty much what it is.


That is true.

The FAA created this concept of part 23 Commuter Category, for airplanes that weigh over 12,500 but under 19,000 lbs. This did not exist when the early Citations were coming out. The commuter category has a number of "part 25 like" rules, so something of a hybrid between 23 and 25.

One of the lingering results is that cumbersome single pilot exemptions exist for 500, 550, S550, 560, while the 525 series is single pilot out of the box, even up to a CJ4.

If we could go back and recertify the 500, 550, S550, 560 under part 23 commuter category, that would be wonderful since that would eliminate the stupid single pilot exemption and allow modifications under part 23. I wonder just how hard that would be to do, it would be one heck of an STC!

Mike C.

It must be true ....you found it on the internet!

.. and those differences are?

Mike C.

I'm going to have to start using the internet to figure out what airplanes are and what they'll do... I've been doing it the hard way all these years... actually walking up to the dang things in a hangar and looking at them!

Once again a thread that was supposed to be about one thing turns into a debate about what's true or false.

I don't know who you think you are talking about, but it ain't me. I happen to have quite a bit of knowledge and experience and I didn't learn it on the internet.

Well to start off the structure of the entire aircraft is more substantial, along with stretching that tube they decided they would let you carry 3000 more pounds!

The wing may be the same basic design and chord as the SII but it's different, flaps are different, leading edge and de-ice is obviously different.

The landing gear, the tires, the wheels, the windshields, the avionics, the seats, the environmental system... shall I go on?

If you are standing across the ramp does it look like same airplane... yes... basically. Do you order 550 parts and install them on your 560... heck no!

Go up to a Citation V or a Lear 31A or a Falcon 10 / 100 and use the side of your hand to bump the skin next to the door... do the same on the Citation II... but be careful... you might put a dent in the II.

My point isn't that the II is bad... it just has more in common with a Cessna 182 than a Boeing 737 Transport Category aircraft. The Citation III that Wikepedia inaccurately says has the SII wing, actually has a wing very similiar to the Boeing. IMHO none of the light jets should have been in Part 25 and single or dual pilot should have been a certification decision based on the actual airplane not some arbitrary 12,500 lbs. number some pencil pushing FAA dweeb pulled out of his keister.

Chip, Please continue on with your list. I'm considering a partnership in a V or Ultra after I sell the KA. Wish I could afford a CJ III but its not in the cards.....

Late model S550 MGTOW is 15,100 lbs.

Early model 560 MGTOW is 15,900 lbs.

800 lbs difference.

Mike C.

Thanks... we needed that!

The Citation V really doesn't have a lot of gotchas to watch out for... to clarify something that was mentioned but not addressed, the ACM is not a replacement for freon air. In my opinion it works better than the enviro system in the II but don't buy an airplane without AC... and it's $50k plus to fix it.

There's quite a few V's on the market, but I prefer finding one off market that's about to be traded or in the case of the last one we found the owner was ready to buy a CJ3 but had been putting off listing his because of the hassle.

As with all airplanes, borescope first, test fly, then pre-buy. I wish I had a "Tom Clements" for Citations but I don't...

I would probably do a conformity check if the aircraft has a lot of mods.

I personally spend an inordinate amount of time with logbooks.. I'm OCD.

Engines MUST be overhauled by Pratt, Dallas, Vector... I don't care if Joe's engine shop has a good reputation...

HOTS... Same... but I'm ok with Prime.

I prefer always US and no damage... budget allowing.

Keep reading. Your comprehension will improve.

It is amazing how much better a preformer the Ultra is compared to the Citation V. Takeoff, climb, and cruise. The ultra is an easy 25 knots faster. In fact in cold conditions I have seen the Ultra true 440 knots.

The Citation V was a huge leap ahead of the airborne road block called the Citation550. Cessna's tweeking the V really got the all the preformance from the -5 Pratts in the Ultra.

Cessna was able to do it again with the new pratt engines to Produce the Encore!

Late model S550 MGTOW is 15,100 lbs.

Early model 560 MGTOW is 15,900 lbs.

800 lbs difference.

Mike C.

My comprehension is just fine thank you!

Information is power. Good information even more so. Keep reading the internet and believing there are no secrets. A wise man told me once that experience is what you get when you dont get what you want! Trying that with airplanes can be an expensive proposition!