It's really a shame there aren't some options. Would be nice if you could operate experimental, or as a homebuilt (modify it a bit) and keep trucking.

(Off topic: How's your Dad n Mom doing... still in Lakeland, A36? Amazing how fast you kids grow up!)[/quote]

Hi Larry, Dad and Mom are great and still in Lakeland. Dad still flying his A36 and its in the paint job this week for a spruce up. Brother flies a 58 Baron. Life is good.

I evaluated the experimental options but the FAA has a new edict that any aircraft built primarily from certified parts cannot be an experimental. (for example no more chopping the motors off P Barons and putting a turbine in the nose). I probably could have put in the exhibition category and had a little airshow routine BUT then there's still the parts problem. Everything and I mean everything goes through the computers/avionics screens and when stuff starts breaking, you can't just pluck it out and install a Garmin screen. You would basically have to start over with the wiring for the engines/deice/gear/flaps/heater/AC/probes/autopilot/fuel/trim, etc. etc. Essentially, you would have a multi year unlimited budget project to still be stuck with an experimental that could not be flown at RVSM heights.

Glad to hear your folks are fine.... haven't seen them in a long time, and the last time I saw you, you were about 4 ft high.....

Yea, it's a shame there isn't more flexibility and options. And especially "reasonable" help from Eclipse....

Oh well, there's always another toy to get....

Vern had a hell of a dream didn't he. He almost got there. It is very cool to hear how much pilots love these. Crazy that they can't be saved.

Exactly... It gets me angry when some say it was a scam or Ponzi scheme. Had it not been for Avidyne, they would have been successful.

"The Eclipse 500 is essentially future-proof"

-- Vern Raburn

Mike C.

Well, the majority of Eclipse are not Avidyne, yet they failed.

Your postulate seems wildly wrong to me.

If the Eclipse had come with steam gauges, it could have been wildly successful, and been on the market YEARS earlier, too. Now those aircraft could get Garminized and be very valuable.

The root cause of the Eclipse failure was gross managerial incompetence and the insistence on trying to innovate new things that were not needed. Airframe makers need to STOP doing that and just concentrate on making a good airplane from current technology. Citations are the best selling light jet because they are simple, not because they are innovative.

Mike C.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Avidyne boxes if the software had been finished. Reliable and easy to use. The FAA made Eclipse turn off the software features due to bugs hence a crippled autopilot, no radar, no TCAS, no FIKI, no FMS, no moving map.

Mike is right, a steam gauge Eclipse that could be upgraded to G500s would be extremely valuable.

I am VERY anti computer on airplanes. When the computers fail you get multiple cascading failures. Nice idea but doesn't work in practice.

Exactly... It gets me angry when some say it was a scam or Ponzi scheme. Had it not been for Avidyne, they would have been successful.

I understand the airframe limitations ... But who needs spare engines? How are they used up already? (Maybe JT just wants spares on hand)

What did you think of the friction stir welded fuselage? good innovation?

He blew up an engine and the tab was gonna be $300K, (no motor program) Other engine needed a hot section. Cheaper to buy new engines on the motor program with a fixed $200/hour cost including all maintenance and surprises.

The 610 series is having some mid life teething issues and sometimes corn cob themselves.

Well, the majority of Eclipse are not Avidyne, yet they failed.

Your postulate seems wildly wrong to me.

If the Eclipse had come with steam gauges, it could have been wildly successful, and been on the market YEARS earlier, too. Now those aircraft could get Garminized and be very valuable.

The root cause of the Eclipse failure was gross managerial incompetence and the insistence on trying to innovate new things that were not needed. Airframe makers need to STOP doing that and just concentrate on making a good airplane from current technology. Citations are the best selling light jet because they are simple, not because they are innovative.

Mike C.

Ouch. That's gonna help get the fleet numbers down.

Smooth and attractive but 100% unrepairable. (wings too not just fuselage) Minor damage to structures is totaling parts. No way to take a section out and rivet in a door skin. Ding a wing with the tug and you need a new $300K wing. When the insurance companies figure this out, the rates are gonna go way up!

The original 1947 Bonanza had spot welds too instead of rivets and I believe Beech took all the planes back and reskinned the wings after they realized it didn't work so well.

Wasn't Avindyne the original contractor of the avionics? I thought they were continuously late with their deliverables and eventually Eclipse moved the development in house. Of course there were other issues (engines, etc) not just Avidyne but to my original point, I don't think it was a scam.[/quote]

I think Avidyne bit off way more than they could chew. The new screens IS&S are still running almost identical software. And, there was an original Avidyne plane flying with all the features enabled. The FAA made them shut off the features to certify the plane. Original plan was to bring all these birds back and upgrade the screens and software for free.

Pratt is a good company but you are really rolling the dice to own a jet engine without the motor program insurance. No one knows what these engines will do in 3000 hours plus.