BeechTalk - BT - Saw the HondaJet Take off from Wichita Eisenhower Yesterday

Username Protected · **Posted:** 03 Apr 2015, 22:50

Username Protected wrote:

Looks like bleed air deice? If so that's a huge plus to me.

Why?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 03 Apr 2015, 22:59

Username Protected wrote:

I don't want inner tubes glued to the leading edges. :pilot:

The maintenance of boots is the number one benefit of bleed air heat, IMO. No cycling, no pin holes, no boot treat, no periodic boot replacement.

Worst feature of bleed air deice is engine performance impact. If you fly a wheezy jet, this can be a big issue. If you fly a Citation X or G-V, not so much.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 03 Apr 2015, 23:13

Username Protected wrote:

I slog through the ice in the Pilatus watching the boots cycle. It works fine but when I want to move up to turbo fan I don't want inner tubes glued to the leading edges. :pilot:

Unfortunately if it is a Citation you will still have boots on the tail.

It looks to me from my pics that the HondaJet also has boots on its tail.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 04 Apr 2015, 06:58

Username Protected wrote:

I slog through the ice in the Pilatus watching the boots cycle. It works fine but when I want to move up to turbo fan I don't want inner tubes glued to the leading edges. :pilot:

Unfortunately if it is a Citation you will still have boots on the tail.

It looks to me from my pics that the HondaJet also has boots on its tail.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 04 Apr 2015, 08:14

Username Protected wrote:

[
I slog through the ice in the Pilatus watching the boots cycle. It works fine but when I want to move up to turbo fan I don't want inner tubes glued to the leading edges. :pilot:

Yeah, you know most sp jets have boots. Actually, I think they all do.

I don't like the look of boots but they do work. I'm working on a paint scheme to make them look better.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 04 Apr 2015, 10:54

Kelly Aerospace had some kind of electric de-ice for the TTx. Wonder why that hasn't been more popular?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 04 Apr 2015, 11:11

Username Protected wrote:

Kelly Aerospace had some kind of electric de-ice for the TTx. Wonder why that hasn't been more popular?

My experience with deice is that the bleed air systems have never failed on me, and the electrical deice systems fail all the time. Usually bleed air on the wings and electric on the tail. I've landed flaps 10 multiple times after picking up ice on the tail after the electrical system failed.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 04 Apr 2015, 11:18

Username Protected wrote:

I've landed flaps 10 multiple times after picking up ice on the tail after the electrical system failed.

I've never had an electrical system failure for real.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 04 Apr 2015, 11:54

Username Protected wrote:

I've landed flaps 10 multiple times after picking up ice on the tail after the electrical system failed.

I've never had an electrical system failure for real.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 04 Apr 2015, 13:05

Username Protected wrote:

The Hondajet engines looks just as big as the FJ44 which makes me pretty certain it's no more fuel efficient than that. There might be other advantages to it, like price or build quality, but fuel efficiency compared to others will not be it's selling point.

It may. I recall reading Honda/GE engineers talking about the engine. And Honda using new metallurgy and production techniques miniaturized the hot section from larger GE engines. The result is a much higher compression/expansion of the gas section which increases fuel efficiency.
No claim how much in the article, but said it was significant.

Tim

Username Protected · **Posted:** 04 Apr 2015, 21:57

Username Protected wrote:

This one was at Cutter in Albuquerque on Friday.

According to one of the Cutter Sales guys here in PHX, the ABQ birds are working on FIKI cert.

RM

Username Protected · **Posted:** 04 Apr 2015, 22:10

Username Protected wrote:

Why do they use boots on the rudder and bleed air in the wings?

Not sure exactly. May not have enough bleed air to spare. Complexity of valves and plumbing for bleed may not fit into tail or be worth the cost. Boots inflated by bleed air with a timer is a much simpler system.

I understand Boeings don't have any tail deice, they found it was not needed.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 04 Apr 2015, 22:52

Bleed heat on both wings and tail surfaces was a nice selling point in the Phenom 300, IMO. I'll bet it's expensive in the performance department, but a lot warmer and fuzzier than boots back up where you can't see them, as far as I'm concerned.

I'm not aware of any other SP jets with this configuration.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 05 Apr 2015, 20:39

Username Protected wrote:

Bleed heat on both wings and tail surfaces was a nice selling point in the Phenom 300, IMO. I'll bet it's expensive in the performance department, but a lot warmer and fuzzier than boots back up where you can't see them, as far as I'm concerned.

I'm not aware of any other SP jets with this configuration.

Beech Premier
Not a good one to forgot, it's a beech forum after all

Username Protected · **Posted:** 09 May 2015, 20:43

I can't imagine this happening with a U.S. Company. 29 years.......

http://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmuller ... d=14010716