Hmmm. This is far more interesting considering the DIY approach.

Wow.

I just shook my head in disbelief as the Tesla installers put up a full roof of panels on a house, directly under a full canopy of oak trees. At least they put them on the South side of the house... I was visiting the neighborhood but almost went to the door to "advise" the homeowners anyway.

The real question... where will this thread lead next...?

The common solar "scam" is to provide systems under a lease. The solar company has you sign a 25 year lease, and that incudes a lien on your house. When you go to sell, the new owners either have to agree to keep paying the lease payments, or the selling owner has to pay off the entire lease to the end. On top of that, the solar company gets the 30% tax credit, not you, since you don't officially own the system.

My mother got a bid for her house. The payments would add up to $86,000. That was $287 per month. If the system worked right, it might save her about $300 per month. So the savings was meager, though future rate hikes would make that work out somewhat, but that's really not a useful result. The real kicker was that the system as designed would not generate power when the grid was down (it was using microinverters) and it had very limited battery capacity of 13.5 KWH (Tesla Powerwall 2). The primary feature she needed was power during an extended outage from a hurricane, which happens pretty regularly on the FL west coast.

Many of these systems end up not working right and the companies don't fix them, so the utility savings don't fully materialize. You still have to pay your utility bill in that case, so you are negative on the system.

Further, if there is a rule change, like 100% net metering goes away which has happened in some states, then you don't get the utility benefits and still have the lease to pay. This is a "political risk" that the solar companies puts on you. You still got to pay the lease.

Please, don't ever sign one of these solar lease contracts. I really feel for the victims of this "legal" scam.

The scam is so widespread that some home buyers avoid looking at houses with a solar array since they assume it is encumbered with a lease. If you do list a house with an array and has no lease, make sure to say that very clearly.

In my mother's case, I designed her a system and installed it for an all in cost of $26K and she gets 30% back on that on her taxes, so net $18.2K invested. This is all materials, permits, licenses, and some hired labor. The system has more power, more battery, and will work with the grid down versus the lease system proposed.

Mike C.

Most states have a homeowner exemption clause for work on your own residence. That is what we used in FL.

Indeed, SC has such an exemption, 40-59-260, in the section about contractor licensing:

SECTION 40-59-260. Exception for projects by property owner for personal use; exemption disclosure statement; notice filed with register of deeds.

(A) This chapter does not apply to an owner of residential property who improves the property or who builds or improves structures or appurtenances on the property if:

(1) the owner does the work himself, with his own employees, or with licensed contractors or registered entities or individuals;

(2) the structure, group of structures, or appurtenances, including the improvements, are intended for the owner's sole occupancy or occupancy by the owner's family and are not intended for sale or rent; and

(3) the general public does not have access to this structure.

Basically, it is the law that you can do the work on your own residence. If the AHJ (authority having jurisdiction, that is, the local code people) object, show them the law. I had that issue in FL and I had to beat them up about a bit, but they relented, and we got it done. In the end, they weren't too bad about getting things done. The inspection was two things, an electrical one for the wiring, and a structural one for the roof mounts. The inspectors came out and briefly looked at a few things and left, so mostly a formality. I think they can tell if someone does good work or not right away and our stuff look very well done.

if you hook to the grid, you generally need a permit and an inspection before you can get the utility PTO (permission to operate) and back feed the grid.

Mike C.

It's bad enough in MA that my realtor said it can actually reduce home value, as the initial assumption will always be that the solar isn't paid off and is going to turn into a headache for the buyer as those stories have been so rampant.

If you go look at a house here with solar, the first thing the selling realtor will tell you is that the system is owned outright and there are no liens or third party payments, or they'll tell you nothing about it (which tells you the other side of that story).

I got lucky, our house has a long East - West roof, easily cleared tree cover, and we bought our panels outright right before the big energy price spike a few years back. We end uo selling to the grid and have not had a net electric cost in years despite a lot of square footage and desire for air conditioning in the summer... the leased solutions available isn't look appetizing. Ours paid for themselves already and now we have batteries installed so we sar completely off-grid capable for electric.

Mike, did you DIY the battery backup or off the shelf?

Chip-

EG4 Indoor Wallmount, 14.3 KWH, two units, about $3200 each.

EG4 FlexBOSS21 hybrid string inverter, about $4200.

Picture of the setup in the garage:


The inverter shown here is an Amensolar which we returned after it had problems and we replaced it with the EG FlexBOSS21.

The array is 30 panels CanadianSolar CS6R-395MS-HL. 11.85 KW nameplate capacity, it has peaked at about 12.7 KW in bright cool conditions. About $3400 for the pallet of 30.


The concrete tile roof made it a little harder, but not excessively so.

Prices from when we bought in late 2024. There are a lot of little bits and pieces to make a full system (wires, shutdown boxes, mounts, racks, conduit, monitoring, breakers, etc.).

The objectives were, in priority order:

1. Power during extended outages due to hurricanes or other events.

2. Pay for itself in energy generation.

3. Whole house UPS that avoids nuisance outages (brief ones that reset computers and clocks). The unit switches in 20 ms on grid drop, which flickers the lights but no clocks or computers reset. There are a lot of nuisance outages where they live.

In April 2025, it made 1904 KWH from solar, pulled 489 KWH from the grid (during the night or cloudy), and exported 1031 KWH into the grid (during sun), net utility balance 542 KWH credit. In late summer, the production will go down, the energy needs for HVAC will go up, so some of the utility credit will be used then. We expect it to be near neutral or maybe a little bit positive. FPL (Florida Power Light) net metering program let's you average over the whole year, very good terms for solar.

Here is results from yesterday:


Yellow is solar power, blue is house power, red is grid. Grid below zero means power exported to the grid. Irrigation runs in the early morning hours, pool runs 5 hours during the day, and there is a lot of HVAC cycling (temps in the 90s now). Only a few passing clouds that day, so good overall production.

My brother is planning a 35 KW array for his house, hangar, airport. 60 panels, each 580 watt, with two FlexBOSS21 inverters. The battery is not yet selected. He bought 62 panels for $8K delivered, $0.22 per watt. He will be doing a ground mount instead of on the roof, which reduces code issues quite a bit.

There is a lot to know when considering a solar system. Regulations, code, utility terms, expected solar production, orientation, load profile, etc. For someone not familiar with all that it will seem bewildering, but it really isn't that complicated in most cases.

Mike C.

That is fantastic and looks like a real clean install as well. Well done and what a treat for your parents to have done for them.

Our solar is ground mounted and aside from the length of run we made seemed to be a pretty straight install and went in fast. We don't have any battery storage, as the only option for us at the time was like $10k and there was a question of whether or not it would work during a power outage (local code). But we do have a generator so really haven't revisited it. But now our power company is doing basically a peak usage surcharge so looking again at a battery option. Thanks for the info!

Chip-

FFS can we please stop talking about non-aviation bullshit and get back to Chip and Mike C smacking each other?

also easy to start another thread

Let's face it, aircraft inventory levels are not critically low, and this thread should be wrecked

Are you sure? After a diligent search, I have found zero inventory of amphibious, aerobatic, six-seat transonic pressurized jets!

Classic, simply classic.