BeechTalk - BT - The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 31 Mar 2024, 13:44

Has been listed since I started looking 5 years ago. Was sub $2mill then. Get the feeling it’s not really for sale.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 31 Mar 2024, 14:24

Username Protected wrote:

Why is this one still listed on Controller?:

[Link]https://www.controller.com/listing/for-sale/193902841/2008-piaggio-p-180-avanti-ii-turboprop-aircraft[/Link]

It's been there a long time? Something wrong with it or price?

I also think they've miscalculated hours on engines. They say it has 1058hrs left, but according to my count it's only 742hrs. Which means nobody is going to pay $2.5mill for it when you're facing an easy $1-1.5million in overhaul costs in a few years.

I love the murdered-out look of it, tho. :thumbup:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 31 Mar 2024, 19:28

Username Protected wrote:

I know in cars carbon brakes lasts alot longer. Is the true for aircraft? If so how much does it offset the higher cost?

Yes, in an aircraft, carbon brakes can make it thousands of landings. Also, they dissipate heat much faster, so if you ever need to really stop quickly (and you don't lock the wheels), they do a better job. Also, eg, if you had an aborted take off, you wouldn't need to wait for them to cool down like you do steel brakes. Plus, as mentioned, they are lighter.

When I got my Piaggio, I was certain I wanted to switch to steel. But upon further investigation, I decided to stick with carbon.

Also, the carbon breaks are pretty available and the steel brakes are very specialty. Few are made every year and you have to order way in advance.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 31 Mar 2024, 19:42

Username Protected wrote:

Also, the carbon breaks are pretty available and the steel brakes are very specialty. Few are made every year and you have to order way in advance.

Isn’t Piaggio installing them on new aircraft? I thought they switched to steel as standard, I thought sometime in the IIs but maybe it was Evos? You’d kinda think a few sets might be being built.

My biggest concern with the carbon is the static hold for run up, or if I was based at a short field, power up for takeoff performance (book runway numbers assume power up before brake release). And cost - it’d be nice to just do pads.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 31 Mar 2024, 23:09

Quote:

My biggest concern with the carbon is the static hold for run up, or if I was based at a short field, power up for takeoff performance (book runway numbers assume power up before brake release). And cost - it’d be nice to just do pads.

In ~115 hours of flight, I've only had the carbon brakes not hold the plane still on run up / departure once. It was after the plane had been on the ramp during a rainstorm (which rainstorm was persisting on departure). I think they were wet soaked. Otherwise, I've had no temperature-related issues. The plane visited Driggs, ID several times this year (COLD!) without any troubles staying put during feather test etc. Granted, my hangar there is heated, but the plane ends up on the ramp for 1-2 hours before I depart.

Ed

Username Protected · **Posted:** 01 Apr 2024, 00:04

Username Protected wrote:

In ~115 hours of flight, I've only had the carbon brakes not hold the plane still on run up / departure once.

Interesting. Mine generally do not hold for the autofeather check at home base. It helps if I drag the brakes a bit on the taxi to the run up, but even then it sometimes won’t hold. Maybe I have something else going on?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 01 Apr 2024, 01:29

Username Protected wrote:

Awesome work Adam and thanks for doing the leg work and posting. I share your passion. I really want an evo...the thought of it keeps me working.

Owner pilots tend to be over the top critical of airplanes, particularly ones that they seek justification for not owning despite the fact that it's out if their league in the first place. Heck I do it

Nobody rains on the Ferrari parade by saying "it's always in the shop, nobody can work on them, parts are hard and expensive"
Instead they say, "that's so cool, awesome, you're my hero, I want one, etc."

Italian things are just what they are and God intended them that way... to be beautiful and fast and temperamental and unjustifiable and hot and expensive and frustrating and thrilling.

Ferrari, Ducati, Piaggio, Perelli, Momo, Sofia Lauren, etc.

I have three problems with the Piaggio, 1. I think they look like a pregnant guppy, 2. If you can see the end of the runway it is too short, 3. It could use a Garrett.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 01 Apr 2024, 09:38

Username Protected wrote:

2. If you can see the end of the runway it is too short,

This is a lot less true than you think. They are decent on runway use.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 01 Apr 2024, 09:49

Username Protected wrote:

Why is this one still listed on Controller?:

[Link]https://www.controller.com/listing/for-sale/193902841/2008-piaggio-p-180-avanti-ii-turboprop-aircraft[/Link]

It's been there a long time? Something wrong with it or price?

I also think they've miscalculated hours on engines. They say it has 1058hrs left, but according to my count it's only 742hrs. Which means nobody is going to pay $2.5mill for it when you're facing an easy $1-1.5million in overhaul costs in a few years.

I love the murdered-out look of it, tho. :thumbup:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 01 Apr 2024, 10:16

Username Protected wrote:

I have three problems with the Piaggio, 1. I think they look like a pregnant guppy, 2. If you can see the end of the runway it is too short, 3. It could use a Garrett.

And that is the perfect example of beauty in the eye of the beholder.
The looks of that plane is exactly my favorite thing about it.
Beauty.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 01 Apr 2024, 10:49

Yeah its interesting how subjective looks are. I think the airplane is beautiful (especially in flight) but my wife thinks its weird looking. It doesnt look like a G6 or a Citation X in other words. But the almost organic look of the nose and the windshields folding back into that fuselage is "magnifico"!

As to the Ferrari analogy that too is completely unearned and in many ways a myth. I have owned 6 over the years and NOT ONE of them has ever been a maintenance hog over any stretch of the imagination. The ones in the 60s and 70s certainly were and I am sure thats where that old saw came from.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 02 Apr 2024, 07:37

Username Protected wrote:

Yeah its interesting how subjective looks are. I think the airplane is beautiful (especially in flight) but my wife thinks its weird looking. It doesnt look like a G6 or a Citation X in other words. But the almost organic look of the nose and the windshields folding back into that fuselage is "magnifico"!

As to the Ferrari analogy that too is completely unearned and in many ways a myth. I have owned 6 over the years and NOT ONE of them has ever been a maintenance hog over any stretch of the imagination. The ones in the 60s and 70s certainly were and I am sure thats where that old saw came from.

There are all kinds of beauty. The P180 looks different. But when you stand to the side and appreciate the shape of the fuselage, or look at the way the engine nacelles curve in and out, while understanding why they are that way I think a pilot, especially, would find beauty to the eye. The cabin, where passengers spend almost all of their time, is gorgeous.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 02 Apr 2024, 08:19

Username Protected wrote:

As to the Ferrari analogy that too is completely unearned and in many ways a myth. I have owned 6 over the years and NOT ONE of them has ever been a maintenance hog over any stretch of the imagination. The ones in the 60s and 70s certainly were and I am sure thats where that old saw came from.

In all fairness, your maintenance experience in a modern Ferrari depends greatly on which six you owned.

Now, if McLaren made an airplane and it functioned regularly, much less reliably, you could knock me over with a feather.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Apr 2024, 21:36

Well as of today I am now a Piaggio Avanti owner…to stay. Traveled all around the aviation world in airplanes and firmly believe this is the best airplane in aviation in terms of speed, capability, cabin comfort and handling. Dropped her off after the acceptance flight for a new full Garmin glass panel, a new paint job and a new interior. 4 months of waiting but I am sure she will be worth it! Love the Piaggio.

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Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Apr 2024, 21:55

Love it, Mark! Welcome back! Love the Mazda red! :thumbup:

Is that black interior already there or the one you're putting in?