BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 18 Jan 2015, 19:29

Username Protected wrote:

That's the way I see: buy the bird then train in it. My business schedule doesn't come close to allowing 2 weeks down time. And I'd just as soon get real time vs. sim time. At least for initial jet rating.

There are benefits to both ways.

In the simulator, you get to experience things you can't ever experience in the airplane, such as actual V1 cuts (zero thrust, not just idle), complete hydraulic failures, electrical faults, smoke in the cockpit, blown tire after V1 (this has killed several people now), thrust reverser deployments, etc.

My opinion is that someone who is trained solely in the airplane is depriving themselves of lots of learning and experience. I believe the best situation is simulator training combined with in-aircraft training after simulator training.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 18 Jan 2015, 19:36

Username Protected wrote:

Josh, do you have any details on the blown tire accidents?

The most notable one:

http://www.ntsb.gov/news/events/Pages/R ... ember.aspx

http://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Acci ... AR1002.pdf

http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviat ... &pgsize=50

Username Protected · **Posted:** 18 Jan 2015, 19:52

Username Protected wrote:

Josh, do you have any details on the blown tire accidents?

The most notable one:

http://www.ntsb.gov/news/events/Pages/R ... ember.aspx

http://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Acci ... AR1002.pdf

http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviat ... &pgsize=50

Username Protected · **Posted:** 18 Jan 2015, 19:55

Username Protected wrote:

Looks like they would not have had a problem with properly maintained tires.

True. The Lear 60 has an AD on it from this incident requiring tire pressure checks every three days, or some other short interval (possibly two days?)

Username Protected · **Posted:** 18 Jan 2015, 20:04

Username Protected wrote:

That's the way I see: buy the bird then train in it. My business schedule doesn't come close to allowing 2 weeks down time. And I'd just as soon get real time vs. sim time. At least for initial jet rating.

You are letting your perceived business schedule dictate your training schedule and style.
Then consider that it is not the right time to do a jet rating for you.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 18 Jan 2015, 21:31

Username Protected wrote:

There are benefits to both ways.

Yes.

I recommend doing the initial training in the airplane, then in 6 months or so, doing a recurrent in the sim.

The idea is that at the beginning, unfamiliarity with YOUR airplane will kill you more than any other thing, so learn how YOUR airplane flies. Then after flying it a while, the thing that will get you is some lack of proper procedure that can only be safely practiced in the sim.

I also recommend rotating instructors, both in airplane and in sim. Every instructor has something to teach you.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 18 Jan 2015, 21:57

Username Protected wrote:

That's the way I see: buy the bird then train in it. My business schedule doesn't come close to allowing 2 weeks down time. And I'd just as soon get real time vs. sim time. At least for initial jet rating.

You are letting your perceived business schedule dictate your training schedule and style.
Then consider that it is not the right time to do a jet rating for you.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 18 Jan 2015, 22:40

I've found that when training owner pilots, it is very important to set aside a certain amount of consecutive days to get the training done. Whereas pro-pilots maybe working on their 5th type rating or have tons of 135 time, the owner pilots don't have that luxury of experience most of the time.

Dave, we chatted prior to your training and I recall you mentioning that the training facility was in your general area. Although this sounds ideal, its preferable to get away for the week to do training and dedicate yourself 100%. Even if a week seems like a long time, it's just part of the deal to learn something new and complicated. Sounds like you were really flexible with the training facility, which could give the wrong impression as you mentioned.

I tell guys that if you can't dedicate a week towards a type rating, you probably need to hold off until you can.

I'm an aircraft kinda guy for initial and simulator guy for recurrent(CE 500 series). There are pluses to both types of training as previously pointed out. Consider your past experience an introduction and set aside a week solid and get it done, whenever you have the time.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 Jan 2015, 05:59

Username Protected wrote:

Perceived?

Actually it's quite real.

Sorry am, I guess I was not clear enough. I am sure your business schedule is very real with very real results. I should have written "perceived importance" of your business schedule. It should come in second place to good training and should not dictate the training you get.

I have seen it happen with some others and now their business schedule is of no help to them, their family or their passengers.

Not directed at you, being concerned it is something I wish people would have awareness heed. As others have slipped down that slope.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 Jan 2015, 10:02

Username Protected wrote:

Perceived?

Actually it's quite real.

Sorry am, I guess I was not clear enough. I am sure your business schedule is very real with very real results. I should have written "perceived importance" of your business schedule. It should come in second place to good training and should not dictate the training you get.

I have seen it happen with some others and now their business schedule is of no help to them, their family or their passengers.

Not directed at you, being concerned it is something I wish people would have awareness heed. As others have slipped down that slope.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 Jan 2015, 11:36

Username Protected wrote:

...its preferable to get away for the week to do training and dedicate yourself 100%. Even if a week seems like a long time, it's just part of the deal to learn something new and complicated.

This is more or less what I'm thinking.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 Jan 2015, 11:40

Username Protected wrote:

Ok...I hear you

and one thing I know is you know more than I on the matter.

but I would definitely buy the plane first rather than trying to work around all these other schedules. You also have to understand, I don't mind, I even like, flying in a crewed environment. And I don't fly around with any ego in the game. I'm either up to the task or I'm not going, period. Like Mike C mentioned though, real time and experience in type is a life saver.

Sam - from my perspective, the benefit to dry leasing and trying several airplanes before you buy is you get to learn their quirks, op cost, benefits and limitations before committing to a particular model and seeing how well or not, it fits your particular mission.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 Jan 2015, 12:00

I am curious why you guys got an ATP?

Can't a CE500 or CE525 rating simply be added to one's current certificate as long as they have private, instrument, and multi? I would think all one would need is the type and a 61.58 recurrent every year.

Unless flying part 135, what is the benefit for ATP rating for a part 91 pilot?