Mike there are times when I'm not sure whether you are for or against GA manufacturing.

I wish you were a GA manufacturer, I think we'd see a huge uptick in sales........and I mean that genuinely.

I'm sticking with my Pilatus until you build a better airplane than that

Do you think Pilatus is looking at a single-jet version of the PC-12? The economics of a single engine are pretty compelling.

I mean, the popularity of SETP's was unexpected by some. Single-engine jet might be the next logical step!

Engine placement with a passenger cabin, though... [/quote]

One thing Mike C really does get right about the Cirrus. Single engine jets just don’t make a whole bunch of sense.

"Lee Aerospace CoolView windows block 99 percent of harmful UV and 82 percent of infrared frequencies so you can enjoy the expansive view without getting sunburned."


I wish other manufacturers had such (UV blocking) windows. Such things are way overdue.

No, they are too smart for that.


No, they aren't. A single engine jet is crippled for a whole host of reasons, not the least of which is being limited to lower altitudes with higher fuel burns and slower speed.

Mike C.

Similar altitudes, fuel burn and speeds compared to SETPs which cost 20-30% more and aren't as comfy inside.

Comparing the Vision Jet to twin turbojets (currently being manufactured) misses the point.

BTW, those SETPs can be yours less than a year after deposit. Not so much for VJ.

Try signing my wife up for that, you know, the woman who won't press the PTT switch to talk on the radio. lol



Who would brief a passenger that there IS a parachute handle and not explain a little of why and when to use it and what to expect?!!




You are wrong. You might get away with claiming this if Cirrus was the only airplane that pilots crash. Lot's of brands get crashed by pilots pushing into situations they aren't prepared for.

Nice find Mark!

From the article you posted.....

And she will pull the chute handle at the right time? Doubtful if she can't push a PTT.


You are going to read the AFM procedure to the passenger? And explain the chute envelope? How the autopilot will take over? How there may be a 30 second delay?

Pilots have a hard enough time deciding WHEN to pull the chute, why do we think a passenger is going to be able to do it?


I can prove it.

Have some Cirrus pilot plan a flight, say night IMC. Just as he gets to the airplane, say the chute is inoperative. They cancel the flight in most cases.

The chute affects decision making. That is inescapable. Some Cirrus pilots honestly admit it, some deny it, but it is still there.


Early SR history was a high accident despite the chute. Whatever positive benefit it had was negated by the influence on decision making.

Only after special training, which lowers the accident rate in ANY aircraft, did the accident rate become passable.

The Columbia/Corvalis, nearly identical in every way but without a chute, has a lower accident rate.

Mike C.

No, they are too smart for that.


No, they aren't. A single engine jet is crippled for a whole host of reasons, not the least of which is being limited to lower altitudes with higher fuel burns and slower speed.

Mike C.

It isn't engine size, it is the regs which make it difficult for a single source pressurization system to go to FL410.

The SF50 has 1846 lbf thrust, the Eclipse EA500 had 1800 lbf thrust total, but yet went higher, faster, further.

It is wrong to transfer piston single versus twin expectations to jets. Just doesn't work.

Mike C.

It isn't engine size, it is the regs which make it difficult for a single source pressurization system to go to FL410.

The SF50 has 1846 lbf thrust, the Eclipse EA500 had 1800 lbf thrust total, but yet went higher, faster, further.

It is wrong to transfer piston single versus twin expectations to jets. Just doesn't work.

Mike C.

You said in the past those same regs made it not just difficult but impossible for a SE to be certified above FL280, yet the SF50 is now certified to FL310, the Epic E1000 is certified to FL340 and Stratos plans to certify their SE jet to FL410.

I never said impossible, that was a distortion promoted by Crandall. I said difficult.


They are nibbling at the edges of FL280 by playing games with timing, but that only goes so far.


So did most of the SEJ players. Call me when any of them do.

To date, the only SEJ on the market is the one that specifically DID NOT go for high altitude certification.

Mike C.

Yes, it can be done.

It will be complex, heavy, and require lots of maintenance.

You end up being better of with a second engine, which eliminates a host of other problems like engine location, power redundancy, thrust redundancy, etc.

Mike C.

I get what you're saying, but an operative CAPS system is required equipment...so if they don't cancel it they're not legal. Hypothetically doing this with an FAA inspector and a permission slip, not cancelling the flight. Real world? Different story.

That said, i agree with what you're saying - the chute is a safety net. Some Cirrus pilots use it as a crutch for bad ADM, just like some never learn to really fly the airplane (other than the autopilot).

I don't like or dislike the parachute, but my wife does. I like being married more than I like flying, so until I can afford to acquire, operate, and maintain something with a PT6 on the front or two whirly things on the back that both of us like, I'm *stuck* with an SR22. We should all be so fortunate...