You said you were trained by a "French Military Pilot".

And you ignored your first claim. That was a lie.

And no, I'm not jealous at all. I do for a living that what is fun to you. I get to do it multiple times a day. I think the jealousy runs the other way round.

So this thread leads me to watching St. Barthelemy flying on youtube.

Mikko, why is this pilot wearing these gloves while flying?

The CJ4 represents a pretty substantial break from the rest of the line. New windshield setup, new door, new swept wing, and so forth. This shows some attempt to differentiate the product line.

Counter to that, Cessna ditched the very different Mustang for the M2, which is basically a CJ1 by another name. This indicates a desire to commonize the product line.

If I was a betting man, I'd say the future for the 525 series looks something like this:

Avionics are and will continue to be the things that change most. Garmin 3000, Garmin 5000, Proline 21, etc.

After that, we may see some back port of the CJ4 features to lower models, say door and windshield changes. Doubtful the wing will be back ported, the swept wing is more expensive to make.

A clean sheet of paper redesign is not indicated. Just not enough meat on those bones to warrant that effort. Also resets the certification effort and basis. So at each product iteration, the base design is retained but incremental features are updated/changed.

I'd be surprised if there is any radical new thing in the SP jet product line up at Textron in the next 10 years.

There is room for a CJ5. The CJ4 MGTOW is 17,110 lbs, and part 23 commuter category goes up to 19,000 lbs, so that leaves room for a CJ5 which would be basically just a CJ4 with fuselage stretch, wing extensions/winglets, and a tad more fuel. Figure to see that in ~4 years maybe, price ~$12M. Williams needs to make a 4000 lbf engine to go with it, though, the FJ44-4 isn't quite enough at 3790 lbf maximum.

Mike C.

You said you were trained by a "French Military Pilot".

And you ignored your first claim. That was a lie.

And no, I'm not jealous at all. I do for a living that what is fun to you. I get to do it multiple times a day. I think the jealousy runs the other way round.

No he isn't.

And no, we don't fly with 11 plus full fuel. Our planes have 8 pax seats, and the most fuel I've ever had out of TFFJ was around 1200lbs. And every now and then we have to leave bags behind because we are overweight. This is operating the plane within the legal W&B envelope in real world, which is more relevant than your stories about flying supermodels to the nude beach who pack no clothes. If that's your normal mission, cool story bro, but I'd add an disclaimer before claiming that's the norm.

In real world scenarios, 8 plus bags plus full fuel isn't really possible apart from very rare situations. Even in your exceptionally light NG, you have 150lbs per person including bags. In my experience, those are very rare loads.

I think Textron will be milking the 525 cow for many years. I doubt the basic airframe will change. Avionics will be upgraded over time.

Windshield and door won’t change. They tried to put a glass windshield on the M2 and canceled it.

CJ4 is a dead end. Performance too close to CJ3+; expensive to manufacture. Yiu could put G5000 into it. Wing cant be pushed much faster withiut excessive fuel burn even with bigger engines.

Cessna is focused in putting their imvestment in the mid to large cabin airplanes. Much more profit in those.

They need a $2.5MM Mustang entry jet. Cessna is probably counting on getying many SF50 move ups over time.

I think Textron will be milking the 525 cow for many years. I doubt the basic airframe will change. Avionics will be upgraded over time.

Windshield and door won’t change. They tried to put a glass windshield on the M2 and canceled it.

CJ4 is a dead end. Performance too close to CJ3+; expensive to manufacture. Yiu could put G5000 into it. Wing cant be pushed much faster withiut excessive fuel burn even with bigger engines.

Cessna is focused in putting their imvestment in the mid to large cabin airplanes. Much more profit in those.

They need a $2.5MM Mustang entry jet. Cessna is probably counting on getying many SF50 move ups over time.

Except for purchase price.

M2: $4.5M
CJ3+: $8M
CJ4: $9.5M
P300: $9.7M

One does wonder if "Cessna" has lost its identify of making economical, simple airplanes.

I wonder if they would make more money selling a $6M CJ3+ than one for $8M. Ramp the volumes, lower the unit price, make money on the service after the sale. A $6M CJ3+ would upset the market.

Mike C.

The Phenom 300 already exists. I don’t think you can spec a P300 killer that can be built in the US for a profit. Offering a P300 clone will not win them many sales.

Then you have the PC24 coming. Textron would have to spec a PC24 killer to get in front.

I'm hoping the PC24 just kills it. I'm so looking forward to some more depreciation in the P300 and CJ3 markets. The P300 would look really good in my Hangar.

The PC24 seems to carry a pretty strong premium. It's a 9.5m airplane from what I have heard.

(hopefully) Nobody pays 8 for a 3+ or 9 for a 4, we didn't. Likewise for the Embraer.

Bingo!!!

I'd be a shopper for earlier serial number P300 a couple yrs from now. I have no issue with the G1000 package. Would prefer the 3000 version but the 1000 works pretty darn well and is well supported.

It’s a complicated strategy. The SP jet market isn’t that large. Yet, there are a good number of SP jets. Textron will keep rolling with the CJs as long as they keep selling. Some people say the Phenoms are killing them, but the CJs keep rolling out the door, regardless. I agree with Allen in that they need more of an entry level jet like the Mustang. I can’t believe the number of guys that have moved up from Mustangs into M2s and CJ3s. If it wasn’t for their experience in the Mustang, most of those transitions would not have happened.

Textron has a hand up with the service network. If The Phenoms had the network of service centers and mobile service units that the CJ had, they would have far greater success.

The 100 doesn't do much for me, but the 300 is somewhat appealing with the speed and cabin.

I enjoy and appreciate the CJ and textrons service network. This is a valuable proposition that creates loyalty. I'm sure brand E has a network, but I'm oblivious to it.