30 May 2025, 09:30 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50  Posted: 18 Feb 2016, 01:56 |
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Joined: 12/10/07
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Username Protected wrote: You can get a low time Mustang in the low 2s. And a higher time one below 2. We are talking new planes, not used ones.
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50 Posted: 18 Feb 2016, 02:28 |
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Username Protected wrote: You can get a low time Mustang in the low 2s. And a higher time one below 2. We are talking new planes, not used ones.
You can talk anything you want but reality is any sophisticated buyer with that type of money will compare the economics of used vs new.
In a few years when used SF50s are for sale you will then be comparing used to used and few folks will be buying new SF50s.
You can now return to your window shopping.
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Allen
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50 Posted: 18 Feb 2016, 12:10 |
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Location: New York, NY
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Username Protected wrote: You can talk anything you want but reality is any sophisticated buyer with that type of money will compare the economics of used vs new.
In a few years when used SF50s are for sale you will then be comparing used to used and few folks will be buying new SF50s.
Right, in a few years there will be used SF50s for $1M and used Mustangs for $2M, and the same logic will apply. Do I want a 300 kt jet for $1M or a 340 kt jet for $2M. Nothing's wrong with that.
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50 Posted: 18 Feb 2016, 14:56 |
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Username Protected wrote: You can talk anything you want but reality is any sophisticated buyer with that type of money will compare the economics of used vs new.
In a few years when used SF50s are for sale you will then be comparing used to used and few folks will be buying new SF50s.
Right, in a few years there will be used SF50s for $1M and used Mustangs for $2M, and the same logic will apply. Do I want a 300 kt jet for $1M or a 340 kt jet for $2M. Nothing's wrong with that.
So if you have $2MM why buy that new SF50 today, sell it for $1MM, and then buy the $2MM Mustang. You have then spent $3MM and are out at least $1MM!
Better to use that $2MM today and buy that slightly used Mustang. In a few years I believe the $2MM used Mustang will be worth more then that $2MM new SF50.
If you were spending your real money I think you would be making a different argument.
Pilkots with a need and a real $2MM to spend are buying Mustangs now.
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Allen
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50 Posted: 18 Feb 2016, 15:09 |
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Username Protected wrote: Allen,
How does Cirrus sell new units for $8-900K now applying the logic above? Worse yet, how does Beech sell Bonanzas and Barons? What is the volume of used sales to new sales? New sales are a small part of the aircraft market for established types. The biggest driver for those who buy new are the ITC and accelerated depreciation. For some that can tip the economics in favor of new. Some people want the latest and greatest with a new plane smell and a new plane warranty. That is more of an emotional decision then an economic one. Have you ever bought a new plane?
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Allen
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50 Posted: 18 Feb 2016, 15:13 |
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Username Protected wrote: Yeah. Some people just want to buy NEW.. As I posted above, rarely is buying new an emotional decision for a big ticket personal purchase like that. You can't count on that small a customer base to make a product successful long term.
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Allen
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50 Posted: 18 Feb 2016, 15:17 |
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Username Protected wrote: I bought a new Cirrus in 2004. It had nothing to do with depreciation; I just wanted it.
Yeah. Some people just want to buy NEW..
Now, I own the oldest airplane I've ever owned. I suspect you would have thought about that new Cirrus purchase more if it cost you $2MM. My point is folks are playing in a different league buying a 2018 SF50 then a 2004 Cirrus SRXX.
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Allen
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50 Posted: 18 Feb 2016, 15:22 |
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Username Protected wrote: My point is folks are playing in a different league buying a 2018 SF50 then a 2004 Cirrus SRXX. Lots of airplane owners play in a different (financial) league than me. At least 500 people think they want to buy one of these jets so far.
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Arlen
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Head out on the highway - Mars Bonfire
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50 Posted: 18 Feb 2016, 15:30 |
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Username Protected wrote: Yeah. Some people just want to buy NEW.. As I posted above, rarely is buying new an emotional decision for a big ticket personal purchase like that. You can't count on that small a customer base to make a product successful long term.
on the contrary, cirrus entire business is based on that idea, and it has worked well for them so far
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50 Posted: 18 Feb 2016, 15:31 |
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Username Protected wrote: Allen,
How does Cirrus sell new units for $8-900K now applying the logic above? Worse yet, how does Beech sell Bonanzas and Barons? What is the volume of used sales to new sales? New sales are a small part of the aircraft market for established types. The biggest driver for those who buy new are the ITC and accelerated depreciation. For some that can tip the economics in favor of new. Some people want the latest and greatest with a new plane smell and a new plane warranty. That is more of an emotional decision then an economic one. Have you ever bought a new plane?
So who buys NEW Mustangs?
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50 Posted: 18 Feb 2016, 15:34 |
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Cirrus sold over 300 new planes last year...
...just saying
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50 Posted: 18 Feb 2016, 16:19 |
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Username Protected wrote: Cirrus sold over 300 new planes last year...
...just saying I'd bet nearly all of them were business expenses for people who could depreciate the asset. Makes little sense otherwise, although probably half a dozen with more money than sense and willing to pony up for the new plane smell. 
Judging from posts on COPA, I would say the majority, by more than a small percentage, is personal.
More money than sense? Really? How many here have $100k plus planes for fun? How many spend more money and time than it takes to fly commercial on many trips?
How many people could say the same about you on some of your purchases. They could me, if they want to judge from their perspective.
You can say the same about cars, houses, watches, etc.
I'm very responsible with my finances. But they don't all make "sense".
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