Sorry to disappear on the thread. Seems a combination of events colluded and I had to push my check ride back. Tried to finish this over the holidays when I had time, but couldn't get her done. Weather became an issue several days I could fly: contract pilots at the school weren't available several days when I could fly. DPE went on vacation (which we knew in advance) In the end, I got in four flights and instructor said I was close, was going to finish this weekend but business got very busy and I'm leaving town for a bit.
So, I'll look at it all again when I get back in town, but now business is demanding a lot of attention and I closed a development deal that will take a lot of cash. May just have to fly the KA for a bit longer (g).

It it wasn't for customers life would be grand eh Dave?

You seem to understand Mark. There are times when I feel I'm inconveniencing service providers, even though I pay promptly and am just trying to get what was promised. I was promised several times the school would get me done. At the end, they gave me a couple numbers for contract pilots and suggested I call them and arrange the plane myself to finish. Sigh.

Hi Dave,

Juan told me about the program you were doing and I've been following your thread with interest. I think the in-airplane experience is invaluable and it has a lot of appeal from that standpoint. I'm about to decide what to do, but think in some cases (like mine), it maybe better to suck it up and take the two weeks off required for a sim program like CAE's or SimCom, and be done with it. What do you think? If you had to do it over, what would you do?

I hope to hook up with you next time I'm up at Addison. And thanks for a great thread!

Dave, sorry to hear this. I remember chatting with you regarding your upcoming training. If you want to discuss any training issues, feel free to contact me.

Alex, have you looked into http://www.arizonatyperatings.com?

They seem to have a good program, though I have no experience yet. I am considering getting 525 typed in the spring and am looking at options.

This post has inspired me.

Attending here had a lot of advantages as far as access and convenience. Folks at the school are knowledgeable, but they don't own the aircraft and have contract pilots. Weather played a role in delaying me and we knew the DPE was scheduled to leave on vacation if we didn't complete by a date. If you arrange a plane (and I was able) and get a commitment for an instructor it could still work, but I found contract pilots first respond to existing trip customers and I got moved back. This course seems a bit more geared to a pro pilot that just needs a couple hours in a plane to get a different type rating than someone like me getting both an ATP and moving to a jet the first time. I knew I would need to go up at least three or four times. The first couple would just be to figure out basics and where things were. I was willing to pay for some extra time, but the folks just kind of left it up to me after twice in the plane. If I have a complaint, it's that they just suggested I contact a contract guy or two on my own and arrange for the plane. I'm running several businesses and just couldn't keep taking time off at the last minute when a contract guy had an opening. I was assured several times they'd finish me up, now, I'm not hearing a thing from them. (Did get a fuel bill from a secretary we requested, that's it.)

So, if you want to be sure you get done in a set time frame, another course may be more appropriate. There is value in the sim and in the plane. I wanted time in the plane this time and thought I might do sim time later. They have a KA sim here, but not a Citation.

When I get back in town, I can probably fly a couple times and take the check ride, but it's dragged out for me. I don't have an immediate need to fly that plane and can adjust to this if need be. Just disappointed the school didn't help more at the end. Also, a contract pilot they recommended said he'd call back and coordinate with me the week after Christmas--NORDO. I called an instructor associated with the plane and went up with him on my own. School owner heard 'bout it and said well, that guy can sign you off (g).

You have to do what fits best for you. Citation V is about 2,000 an hour with dry lease and fuel. School cost is on top of that. In my case, two flights through the school, about 3.5 hours on the hobbs, and I was on my own. So add instructor time on top of that. I think an initial transition in less than ten hours for someone new to jets would be pushing it. I took a couple trips with an instructor also, but those were up to altitude and down, not doing any required maneuvers or really working on technique, but good familiarization with the plane and systems. Took a bit to figure out the avionics and panel also.

Helpful?

John talked about the Arizona folks above and seemed satisfied with them. John had his own plane. I was dry leasing a local plane. The plane owners were, and are, responsive and helpful, but there could still be a conflict if an owner needs to go somewhere. When you dry lease, you need a certificate of insurance and to make sure you're covered during training. A lot of plane owners you might lease from don't seem familiar with how that all works. I was qualified as an SIC pretty quickly and could be covered as SIC on the owner's policy, but many policies don't allow training.

Best,

Dave

I'll add a comment that sometimes I'm probably just too nice. I was trying to work this in over the holidays when business let up and probably should have made that clear. When class started they had a pro pilot that was on a limited budget and had to fly and get signed off right away. One would think I paid an equal amount and would be treated the same but they asked if they could move him ahead and I agreed. Several other places where I just went along with things and it strung out. I really went there to enjoy myself and learn and didn't want to be too demanding. Probably should have at least spoken up. Don't expect folks to do that to me, but it happens. I usually just vote with my check book and move along, but there are times the squeaky wheel gets the attention even when he was budget and time conscious and I was willing to be patient and chip in more if needed. Now, my business has to take front seat again and I have a trip coming up I booked several months ago.

Alex, have you looked into http://www.arizonatyperatings.com?

They seem to have a good program, though I have no experience yet. I am considering getting 525 typed in the spring and am looking at options.

This post has inspired me.

Thanks very kindly for the offer. It'll work out. Just got moved back a bit and I have to figure out how to work it back into what's become a very busy schedule. I'd like to go up once or twice when I get back and immediately take the check ride. In some cases here, I had 10 days between training in the plane.

Just to piggy-back on Dave's comments... Having my own bird to do the training in was certainly a big plus! That being said, I'm pretty sure that ATR does have access to a couple of Citations that they are able to dry lease for training with clients that don't have access to an aircraft.

John IV

Just to piggy-back on Dave's comments... Having my own bird to do the training in was certainly a big plus! That being said, I'm pretty sure that ATR does have access to a couple of Citations that they are able to dry lease for training with clients that don't have access to an aircraft.

John IV

There are benefits to both ways.

In the simulator, you get to experience things you can't ever experience in the airplane, such as actual V1 cuts (zero thrust, not just idle), complete hydraulic failures, electrical faults, smoke in the cockpit, blown tire after V1 (this has killed several people now), thrust reverser deployments, etc.

My opinion is that someone who is trained solely in the airplane is depriving themselves of lots of learning and experience. I believe the best situation is simulator training combined with in-aircraft training after simulator training.

There are benefits to both ways.

In the simulator, you get to experience things you can't ever experience in the airplane, such as actual V1 cuts (zero thrust, not just idle), complete hydraulic failures, electrical faults, smoke in the cockpit, blown tire after V1 (this has killed several people now), thrust reverser deployments, etc.

My opinion is that someone who is trained solely in the airplane is depriving themselves of lots of learning and experience. I believe the best situation is simulator training combined with in-aircraft training after simulator training.