14 Nov 2025, 07:18 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m? Posted: 08 Dec 2017, 14:53 |
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Joined: 01/16/11 Posts: 11068 Post Likes: +7097 Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Aircraft: PC12NG, G3Tat
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Username Protected wrote: CJ3 is not much more to operate per mile than your PC-12!
On a per mile basis I'm not buying that...........until I buy one From KTEX to KFXE you are around 4hrs in the CJ3 with about 4100lbs of fuel, if kept to optimal routing. In the PC12 you are currently about 6hrs with about 2350lbs of fuel. The CJ3 is faster by a fair bit. Currently at FL43 the tailwind is about 15 knots better than at FL 270. I'll give the advantage to CJ3 by a fair margin. Full fuel payload to get that distance is about 640 lbs. Full fuel payload for the PC12 to get that same distance is 1200lbs (including pilot)........so definite advantage to the PC12 Fuel burn for that same trip is about 1500lbs more for the CJ3 or about 225 more gallons......I'd have to give the advantage to PC12........... Comfort is about the same as the PC12 has a slightly bigger cabin with a flat floor but you spend way less time in the CJ3 on a per trip basis. The only other thing that the PC12 does well is get into more runways........way better for fuel or airport selection, especially during rain/snow............which happens to me more often than I would like.
_________________ ---Rusty Shoe Keeper---
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Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m? Posted: 08 Dec 2017, 15:15 |
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Joined: 01/16/11 Posts: 11068 Post Likes: +7097 Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Aircraft: PC12NG, G3Tat
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Username Protected wrote: Why would you fly a CJ3 at FL270? Or is that what you meant? I said, and I quote "Currently at FL43 the tailwind is about 15 knots better than at FL 270' and by that I meant that the 4hrs came with a slightly better tailwind at 410 (CJ3 optimal) than at FL270 (PC12 optimal).........CJ3 would be a FL410 
_________________ ---Rusty Shoe Keeper---
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Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m? Posted: 08 Dec 2017, 15:26 |
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Joined: 01/29/08 Posts: 26338 Post Likes: +13085 Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
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Username Protected wrote: 300 hrs in a CJ3 is a lot of flying...
I'm doing about 6 flights a week. Most 250-600NM. East of Mississippi. This is why I haven't bought the jet yet. It's going to cost a lot more to run because so many of my flights are so short.
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Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m? Posted: 08 Dec 2017, 15:27 |
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Joined: 01/29/08 Posts: 26338 Post Likes: +13085 Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
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Username Protected wrote: Better get ready to buy a CJ3! Who made up those numbers? Why is JetA for a CJ3 less than JetA for PC12? My insurance is $24K a year and I carry $25MM. Your numbers are way off.
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Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m? Posted: 08 Dec 2017, 15:28 |
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Joined: 01/31/09 Posts: 5193 Post Likes: +3038 Location: Northern NJ
Aircraft: SR22;CJ2+;C510
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Username Protected wrote: Better get ready to buy a CJ3! Why does fuel cost in your analysis differ between the PC12 & CJ3? They both use the same Jet-A?
_________________ Allen
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Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m? Posted: 08 Dec 2017, 15:32 |
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Joined: 05/23/13 Posts: 8521 Post Likes: +11077 Company: Jet Acquisitions Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
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Jason,
I think if you look at those trips closely, it won't be as bad as you think. I was convinced of the same thing until we went through the exercise a couple of years ago on the CJ4. Yes you aren't operating it at is optimum altitude, but because of the speed fuel burn isn't as bad as it looks.
Plus, you'll only fly the CJ3 200 hours per year instead of 300... that's a big difference for maintenance cost and engine reserves, not to mention residual value of the airframe.
As Penman said, shorty runways and more payload are in favor of the PC12... op cost... not as much as you would think.
_________________ We ONLY represent buyers!
Last edited on 08 Dec 2017, 15:43, edited 1 time in total.
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Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m? Posted: 08 Dec 2017, 15:32 |
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Joined: 05/23/13 Posts: 8521 Post Likes: +11077 Company: Jet Acquisitions Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
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Username Protected wrote: Airframe MX on PC12 is $75K a year? WTF? How much are you paying to do two 150 hr inspections?
_________________ We ONLY represent buyers!
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Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m? Posted: 08 Dec 2017, 15:33 |
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Joined: 05/23/13 Posts: 8521 Post Likes: +11077 Company: Jet Acquisitions Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
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Username Protected wrote: Better get ready to buy a CJ3! Why does fuel cost in your analysis differ between the PC12 & CJ3? They both use the same Jet-A?
Mistake. I'll correct it.
_________________ We ONLY represent buyers!
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Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m? Posted: 08 Dec 2017, 15:33 |
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Joined: 01/31/09 Posts: 5193 Post Likes: +3038 Location: Northern NJ
Aircraft: SR22;CJ2+;C510
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Username Protected wrote: As Penman said, shorty runways and more payload are in favor of the CJ3... op cost... not as much as you would think.
Huh?
_________________ Allen
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Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m? Posted: 08 Dec 2017, 15:40 |
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Joined: 01/29/08 Posts: 26338 Post Likes: +13085 Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
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Username Protected wrote: Airframe MX on PC12 is $75K a year? WTF? How much are you paying to do two 150 hr inspections? 0. I don't do 150 hour inspections. Just annual.
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Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m? Posted: 08 Dec 2017, 15:42 |
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Joined: 01/29/08 Posts: 26338 Post Likes: +13085 Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
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Username Protected wrote: Jason,
I think if you look at those trips closely, it won't be as bad as you think. I was convinced of the same thing until we went through the exercise a couple of years ago on the CJ4. Yes you aren't operating it at is optimum altitude, but because of the speed fuel burn isn't as bad as it looks.
Plus, you'll only fly the CJ3 200 hours per year instead of 300... that's a big difference for maintenance cost and engine reserves, not to mention residual value of the airframe.
As Penman said, shorty runways and more payload are in favor of the CJ3... op cost... not as much as you would think. Chip, flying up and down the east coast, 300 PC12 hours do NOT equate to 200 CJ3 hours. Not even close. On all my short flights the difference in flight time is negligible.
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Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m? Posted: 08 Dec 2017, 15:51 |
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Joined: 05/23/13 Posts: 8521 Post Likes: +11077 Company: Jet Acquisitions Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
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Username Protected wrote: Jason,
I think if you look at those trips closely, it won't be as bad as you think. I was convinced of the same thing until we went through the exercise a couple of years ago on the CJ4. Yes you aren't operating it at is optimum altitude, but because of the speed fuel burn isn't as bad as it looks.
Plus, you'll only fly the CJ3 200 hours per year instead of 300... that's a big difference for maintenance cost and engine reserves, not to mention residual value of the airframe.
As Penman said, shorty runways and more payload are in favor of the CJ3... op cost... not as much as you would think. Chip, flying up and down the east coast, 300 PC12 hours do NOT equate to 200 CJ3 hours. Not even close. On all my short flights the difference in flight time is negligible.
I'm not trying to talk you into anything... just sharing knowledge. You can debate all day... but my point is the CJ3 does better than you might think in comparison to the PC12 and does it faster.
If it is just .15 or .25 off a leg... that adds up to hours. It may not be 200 instead of 300... and you very well may have crunched the numbers and figured it out where it works best for you, I'm just saying we went through this with a CJ4 and it was a lot closer than I would have thought. They went with the CJ4 because they could do a bunch of short hops and be back to the barn the same day, or do in two days when the t-prop took three.
_________________ We ONLY represent buyers!
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