Hah! Have you been saving that just for this occasion?

I think Mike got caught up in all the Russian collusion mess, so he is keeping his head down.

#CNNBlackmail

He's claiming he didn't inhale.

Hah! Have you been saving that just for this occasion?

The FAA is way behind, so that may be why. (not the one flying test flights obviously)

I stand corrected, I checked a few recent sales and it appears the FAA is caught up.

I shall give credit where it is due... even to the FAA

To determine fair market value we look at the airplanes sold over the last 6 months and use the comps to evaluate our subject aircraft.

We charge a retainer (covers expenses and travel) and a fee upon successful negotiation / closing. The total charge is $42k on a typical Citation V deal. On every single acquisition we have done so far, we have saved the buyer more than our fee.

We offer consultation services for a flat rate of $2500 for the first 90 days. We'll help them asses their mission, determine what type of aircraft, assist with obtaining financing, get them in touch with aviation and tax attorneys, guide them through setting up an LLC or Trust, etc.

Alex, do you mean reimbursable expenses? If so that's typically airfare to travel and look at an aircraft for our client, plus car rental and hotel.

If you mean general expenses, we have the normal stuff, office rent, internet and phones. The expenses specific to this industry are the biggest and include subscription services such as VREF, ACC and one very pricey little database that has all of the turbine aircraft in the world loaded in it

[quote="Chip McClure"]Alex, do you mean reimbursable expenses? If so that's typically airfare to travel and look at an aircraft for our client, plus car rental and hotel.

If you mean general expenses, we have the normal stuff, office rent, internet and phones. The expenses specific to this industry are the biggest and include subscription services such as VREF, ACC and one very pricey little database that has all of the turbine aircraft in the world loaded in it [/quote

Thanks for the reply Chip, I was just wondering about the general expenses and I figured there couldn't be much to spend on for businesses like this.

Hookers and blow.

There several business models that don't take a large amount of capital to open. Accountants, attorneys, etc. You are paying for their service and/or expertise.

Yes, Tom is correct. My company is a service business, my overhead is very low. We are very low volume, working with no more than four clients at any given time. It would be great to scale it into a larger business, but it simply isn't scalable. Just like an attorney I have a limited number of hours and therfor can only adequately serve a limited number of clients. To go beyond that would dilute our ability to perform at the level our clients expect.

I worked on the sales / brokerage side for 15 years... it's basically the opposite, the more volume you do, the more activity you have, the more business you generate. The aircraft buyer sometimes suffers, lack of responsiveness, failure to return calls, inability to provide requested information are all "acceptable" failures of a "busy" aircraft broker.

The reason you see so many aircraft brokers appear when the aircraft market heats up is that there is a very low threshold of entry. Many aircraft brokers have no place of business or expenses beyond a cell phone, many are full time pilots and sell airplanes on the side.

And yes... many spend money on Hookers and Blow

Sadly, the aircraft sales industry is basically unregulated and in many cases unethical.

It really is a buyer beware world.

The experience needed to sell airplanes is really pretty limited, anyone with a personality and the ability to learn the basics about the aircraft can do it. The experience required to buy airplanes... that's a whole lot more involved. That's one of the reasons you see so many brokers and so few buyer's reps.

And of course legal fees... I forgot legal fees.

My attorney (Beechtalker) must have seen this post because he sent me a bill today!

Chip, can you give examples of how you saved more than the 42k fee?

Sure, every deal is different and all negotiations are different. Our goal is always to negotiate the very best deal possible for our buyer while making sure the transaction is quick and smooth for the seller. Many sellers are open to selling the airplane for lower than retail if the transaction goes smooth, the buyer does what they promise and the prebuy / closing is seamless and quick.

In the Citation V deal referenced here, there was no broker involved. A broker would have typically charged $50k to list and sell the airplane. The sellers bottom dollar was $130k more than what we ended up paying for the airplane. It took a few weeks of negotiations and it culminated with the owners pilot calling and asking if the number that I was giving them came straight from the buyer, I replied that it was. He stated that as long as someone wasn't making a big payday off the owners low price he would do the deal.


I spent many years buying airplanes for inventory. That is a number greater than $42k by at least double even on a million dollar airplane.

It takes time, patience, market knowledge and an understanding of how to find the right airplane for the right price.

It is very rare for a turbine aircraft to change hands without someone getting paid, it is often two or three someone's. Even a broker who is just partially in a deal is going to make $25k so we typically buy airplanes with just a listing agent or no broker at all. The commission saved alone is higher than our fee.

I'll be glad to give more examples, just understand the actual sales prices are confidential.

You can also ask fellow Beechtalkers Wes Watkins, Josh Lubbers and Chris Allard about the buys we made for them.