Very true John. Maybe we can all consider a P Nav as they were *bleeping awesome to maintain... and cheap. . While I had pretty good luck with one... the stories I've heard about some other P Navs can make the A* almost sound reasonable.

All that plus the wing loading and super stiff airframe.

Pressurized Aerostars have one disadvantage vs the competition (pressurized) which is two turbos per side. That system is a bit more complex and expensive than a single turbo / single wastegate configuration.

The maintenance is a little more consumptive due to being tight everywhere.

Since that was directed at me, I guess I should reply.

Forrest, the message was fine and a very good one. 'Absolutely believe that (having owned 2 P twins, I'm not a newbie)... The way you delivered it? Man the eF up and admit you wanted to be an attention whore and become professorly replying to a post that had clear sarcasm (and the green font). Then you made assumptions.. You know what ASSUME means, right? (it makes an Ass out of...)

I own the fact that I escalated and shouldn't have. For that I apologize. No one looks good on internet fights. I should have just bowed to your wisdom (which is very much appreciated) and pretend I am poor and stupid.

And that will end my "contributions" to this thread - and of course I will let Forrest have the last word.

I do hope you have a blessed Easter.

If I ever wondered, “do men grow up”, the answer is a resounding, “no”. You kids should take that out to the playground.

Anyhoo, the Cessna 414 that I’m flying is the first pressurized twin that I’ve been intimately involved with its maintenance.

I have NO IDEA if an Aerostar is more or less of a maintenance hog, but I can guarantee that I have more room for my hands around the 414. Having said that, they are all maintenance pigs, *if* you’re not on top on maintenance. Even if you are, there are so many ways to piss away money that $500 per hour is scrapping the bottom price point to own and comfortably operate these types of planes. I agree with $750 per hour.

Something will always be either broken, soon to be broken, breaking as we speak, or needs attention because you think it might break. That all equals shop time and money.

I would rate a decades old twin piston engine pressurized aircraft as slow torture, with some happy moments mixed in. Make sure those happy moments can offset the frowning moments.

I think we got off topic here.

The original figure stated of $750 / hour is insane. But I fly the 600. Unless I could get the engines to start "burnin' Benjamins" instead of 100LL there's no way I could go through that much money.

But more to the point, you're never going to convince me that an Aerostar, whether the 600 or the 700P (or anything in-between) is MORE expensive to maintain than a Brand B or Brand C aircraft of similar capability. Absolutely not. And that's why I think Aerostars are not just the best looking and best performing, but also the absolute best value.

My "sage" advice for the prospective buyer is simple: if you look at the Aerostar and it does not move you, buy brand B or C. The Aerostar is a rare bird and it benefits from an "investment" on the part of the owner. You're much better off the more you learn about the airplane. If you think ownership is just writing checks, you're going to end up writing a lot of very big checks. There are many, many more mechanics out there familiar with brands B and C.

I do agree with Forrest that the purchase price is just a miniscule fraction of what you'll spend on the plane over the years. Heck, my glass panel being installed as we speak is costing more than the plane did. So buy wisely, an airframe that justifies the investment.

(And Forrest, that panel upgrade is not an "expense." It is a capital improvement. I'm getting something back for that investment if / when I am ever forced to sell.)

When my mechanic finished the install on my Mattituck overhauls he said, "Well, the good news is you'll never have to do that again."

And I told him, to the contrary, I'm looking forward to coming back for that future overhaul. Because it will mean not only am I still flying, I'm still flying my Aerostar.

Ted Smith was a genius.

One of the many benefits of operating an Aest 600 is the NA Lycoming 540s sound so good when you fire them up. Nothing but pure raw power pounding cylinders sucking up tons of oxygen and firing up gallons of 100LL.

Turbo models just don’t sound as good. It’s not quite as pure. Turbo’s whine. NA models have more of a deep throated pounding. Oh well, one of the many trade offs.

I was going to bid on the one below that had been sitting for many years. It was suggested that unless I got it for next to nothing, to avoid that model like the plague... Someone likely walked into an expensive project that they paid too much for.

I had just sold my SS700 at the time and only live an hour away when it went up for auction...

https://bid.repocast.com/lots/2507190#Y ... Zbd2lkXT0y

I was going to bid on the one below that had been sitting for many years. It was suggested that unless I got it for next to nothing, to avoid that model like the plague... Someone likely walked into an expensive project that they paid too much for.

I had just sold my SS700 at the time and only live an hour away when it went up for auction...

https://bid.repocast.com/lots/2507190#Y ... Zbd2lkXT0y

I was going to bid on the one below that had been sitting for many years. It was suggested that unless I got it for next to nothing, to avoid that model like the plague... Someone likely walked into an expensive project that they paid too much for.

I had just sold my SS700 at the time and only live an hour away when it went up for auction...

https://bid.repocast.com/lots/2507190#Y ... Zbd2lkXT0y

A guy flew an Aerostar in to the Williston Pig Roast Fly-in today. How cool is that?!

I got to depart right behind him. The Fly-in was well attended and the food was good too.

The Superstar II is the first of the Superstars. It is a good performer if you can keep it running. It is a good engine that does not work in an Aerostar.

So few left, fewer that are in reasonable condition. Few owners will put any money into one for good reason. Not really worth talking about in my opinion. I am sure someone will be upset at that opinion!

To me the most justifiable reason for Aerostar 700 was proved by yours truly a few years ago.

Me and 200 gallons fuel.
Climbed to 8,000 feet cause I was chicken at 5,000 feet.

Slowed to barely above stall speed while having gear and take off flaps.
Firewall full forward then around 90 knots I pulled right mixture all the way out.

100fpm climb while still dirty with windmilling prop
600-700fpm once cleaned up and feathered/caged engine.

Anyone else? Nope

Second most justifiable reason: Aerostar is the best Pre Avanti training airplane made….in deuces. Not only did I get used to fast approach speeds in Aerostar making Avanti less of a jump I got used to the lightening of de wallet. No possible way I could have gone from a plain Jane Seneca to Avanti. I would have stroked out by now.

To me the most justifiable reason for Aerostar 700 was proved by yours truly a few years ago.

Me and 200 gallons fuel.
Climbed to 8,000 feet cause I was chicken at 5,000 feet.

Slowed to barely above stall speed while having gear and take off flaps.
Firewall full forward then around 90 knots I pulled right mixture all the way out.

100fpm climb while still dirty with windmilling prop
600-700fpm once cleaned up and feathered/caged engine.

Anyone else? Nope

Second most justifiable reason: Aerostar is the best Pre Avanti training airplane made….in deuces. Not only did I get used to fast approach speeds in Aerostar making Avanti less of a jump I got used to the lightening of de wallet. No possible way I could have gone from a plain Jane Seneca to Avanti. I would have stroked out by now.

Yep, that’s it in a nut shell Brad. Nothing with pistons comes close… nothing.
Only improvement left is CR.