Doug (and everyone watching from the sidelines):


I haven’t said this in a while…..

But apparently a (gentle) reminder is needed.

IF you have any question (whatsoever) about whether you can afford to buy an Aerostar, you can’t afford to own and operate one.

My plane (601P) is in annual this month.

Last year my regular shop was backed up so I had a different (not bad, just a bit less stringent) shop do annual inspection, this year I’m back at my regular shop.

In two years plane has flown 400+ hours.

Last year my hat section (nose gear attach structure) had to be repaired (I had them do the high gross upgrade), this year both props (calendar) and mags (hours) were sent off, plus smoking rivets under wings, plus a bunch of lessor items I’d been carrying around, plus stuff they found I had not been aware of.

Over the year I’m in the shop about five times for oil changes and repairs that might be needed. 1-2 times a year the plane has to stay more than just for the day.

I’m not complaining, I’m just trying to give an idea as to what it costs to have an Aerostar that is in decent shape to fly 200+ hours a year.

Bottom line: I used to tell folks that ask: “$500/Hour plus fuel”.

In reality, to own and operate an Aerostar that is kept in as good or better shape than when you bought it that is a low number. I don’t do the math, (cowardice), but going forward I am going to start telling folks $750/HR.

Here’s my advice:

1. If a surprise $25-50K bill is going to in any way impact your or your family’s standard of living, you can’t afford an Aerostar.

2. If your budget (@$750/HR + gas) won’t allow you to fly 100+ hours a year, you aren’t going to get much utility or maintain much (adequate) proficiency.

3. IF you are mechanically inclined AND have the desire to spend time doing your own maintenance, you can be like other owners who own 600s and (under the supervision of an A&P) do their own repairs. For some folks, this kind of set up works well.

4. If someone tells you that my numbers are excessively high.

Ask:

Does that include hanger
Does that include avionics up grades
Does that include paint
Does that include refurbished interior
Does that include charts (electronic or paper)
Does that include insurance and annual training and check ride to keep insurance
Does that include propeller overhauls
Does that include engine overhauls
Does that include Turbos and waste gate repairs
Does that include Pneumatic pumps and door seals
Does that include alternators and magnetos
Does that include cracked windows

5. The unhappy reality is that folks buy Aerostars who can’t afford to maintain them, instead they live with a growing list of deferred maintenance items and as a result they don’t or can’t fly (much) and their proficiency starts to slip.

Setting them up for two sadly well traveled out comes.

A. They sell their plane to some other unwary owner, to continue the process of neglect.

B. They crash, most often due to lack of proficiency, sometimes lack of proficiency plus lack of maintenance.


Bottom line:

With an Aerostar, purchase price is just the cost of admission!


Happy Easter Weekend


Forrest

Forrest, if there ever was a "perfect Aerostar post", you just made it.


Having owned two of them (and wishing I still had one, many times), I cannot emphasize enough how accurate your post is.

As always, thank you for posting.



stan

Exactly… I was thinking what you just said for a long time Forrest. Glad you said it. And, I definitely don’t disagree with your numbers. You’re right on. A slap back to reality was needed.

Forrest, that’s a great post and I am sure your numbers are close as you probably have more A* time than I ever will. However I’m not sure why you felt I needed a “(gentle) reminder” about OpEx. I get heavy OpEx – my 340A isn’t / wasn’t cheap – although it is a great 340A.

It was a joke (that even included some green font) about changing the “wants / needs” from a 601P to a 700 given Jim’s and John’s and some of the 680/700 speeds they’ve seen - and thus the CapEx joke.

“Lighten up Francis” (from Stripes) could become “Lighten up Forrest.”

Education is always welcome. Preaching isn’t always welcome or necessary. Hopefully anyone considering an Aerostar knows what they are getting in to on the OpEx side. Ron is probably laughing at me because Ron - wasn’t it a year-ish ago that I messaged you the “WTH are you thinking about looking at Aerostars?” And here we are I am going to purchase one (or possibly an MU2) and Ron runs an Aerostar page.

I appreciate the intention... Yes, P Twins are expensive to operate.. Got it.

That is a perfect post not just for Aerostars but ALL pressurized piston twins imho. They're complex, high strung and thirsty.

Same thing happened to me. I joined BT to learn about upgrading from an SR20 to a Baron. Ended up in an Aerostar instead.

Tim

Heck, my post was directed at anyone considering owning an Aerostar.

Including you (Doug).

If it makes any difference what you’ll need to pay to buy an Aerostar, you can’t afford one.

Run one for a couple thousand hours and the entire purchase price will be a rounding error on your total cost of ownership.

Buy a cheap one and what you will spend in the first year will make the cost of entry into a rounding error.

Here’s the difference between Aerostars and other pressurized piston twins.

People are afraid of Aerostars, they look at the accident statistics and the fatality rates and steer clear, which means they can be cheap(er) to purchase.

Leading the unwary to believe they can afford to own something they can’t.


All I can (will) add to this last statement is:

(It is Easter so I hope this isn’t outside the BT TOS.)

1. Faith may get you to heaven.
2. Faith in the representations of individuals who either have a vested interest in your decision or have no knowledge as to the advice they are offering is likely to accelerate the time when you learn whether the elevator goes up or down.

Bottom line: If it makes a difference what different Aerostars cost to purchase, you can’t afford to own either one.

“…. it’s like Wisconsin….”

https://youtu.be/McZ2H_Iqx4g

Forrest

I know what I said, thanks! 'Memory is still strong... Even remembered how to use the GREEN FONT that I used which typically denotes sarcasm.

Got it. Most folks here aren't new to the airplane game. You hopped on a sarcastic 601P v Superstar 700 post. Your statement is naïve and offers zero value. I can afford a Bentley - that doesn't mean I can (or want to) justify the CapEx or OpEx difference. But expanding your statement, everyone should buy a Bentley (or Mercedes or whatever) because over the total cost of ownership over the life of....

I think a lot of owners substantially underestimate the costs of owning their planes. That is OK as long as new owners have the budget to support the real costs, not the hypothetical rose-glasses costs.

Very true John. Maybe we can all consider a P Nav as they were *bleeping awesome to maintain... and cheap. . While I had pretty good luck with one... the stories I've heard about some other P Navs can make the A* almost sound reasonable.

Pressurized Aerostars have one disadvantage vs the competition (pressurized) which is two turbos per side. That system is a bit more complex and expensive than a single turbo / single wastegate configuration.

The maintenance is a little more consumptive due to being tight everywhere.

No pressurized piston twin is easy to keep on top of in the maintenance sense.

No other pressurized piston twin is so gratifying to fly!!

This IS for Doug:

Dude, it’s apparent you don’t like my message, or how I delivered it.

I don’t have a window into your soul (or your wallet).

I don’t know, or care, what your hat size is.

My hope is that you live long enough to understand the value of my (unwanted, unneeded) advice.

Too harsh?

Google Aerostar on the internet, I have no doubt you will find a self identified expert who will help you acquire, improve and train in an Aerostar.

I don’t hold myself out as offering to do any of those things.

Finally, as you do not as of yet own an Aerostar this piece of advice is only theoretical:

The Aerostar community is a small place. Tread lightly.

Have a great weekend!

Forrest

Pressurized Aerostars have one disadvantage vs the competition (pressurized) which is two turbos per side. That system is a bit more complex and expensive than a single turbo / single wastegate configuration.

The maintenance is a little more consumptive due to being tight everywhere.

No pressurized piston twin is easy to keep on top of in the maintenance sense.

No other pressurized piston twin is so gratifying to fly!!

"Over the year I’m in the shop about five times for oil changes and repairs that might be needed. 1-2 times a year the plane has to stay more than just for the day."

THIS is why I passed on Aerostars (which are quite appealing BTW), as well as other pressurized piston twins and went with the F model MU-2. My P210 was in the shop at least twice a year for oil changes and usually another time or two for some other issue, usually minor, but....The MU-2, in the year and a half I have owned it, has spent zero time in the shop for airframe or engine issues. I am told by my MU-2 folks that this experience is NOT unusual. It has had 2 100/200 hour inspections which cost $23K combined including one new battery, and a set of new tires and the prop pitch control AD. I have flown the plane 230 hours since 9/2020. Insurance, $10K/year. Pressurized piston twins are wonderful airplanes, but they come at a cost as Forrest pointed out. For a similar cost you could be flying a faster more reliable twin turboprop with a much lower aggravation factor. Just something to consider if you are seriously looking at this type of aircraft. Quite a few MU-2 owners owned Aerostars, and while they miss the flying qualities of the Aerostar, none that I know of are going back for the reasons mentioned in this thread.

I have owned my Aerostar for six years. It took two years to get it to where I wanted it. During the last four years, every airport I have flown into someone (usually a corporate pilot) has come up to me and complimented me on my Aerostar. No matter how you cut it, the Aerostar is a head turner and that’s only the half of it.

Flying the Aerostar is like flying no other. Push rod, torque tube controls and monster Lycoming’s give you spontaneous control. Takeoffs and landings, especially landings are nothing short of exhilarating. It takes the tower guys a little bit of time to figure out you’re not like everybody else out there.

The Aerostar has been constantly evolving since its inception through all of the Machen mods. It’s not even close to the same airplane since it left the factory. Owning and flying an Aerostar is not just another form of transportation, it’s a life style. I love it…