28 May 2025, 07:11 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.  Posted: 31 Aug 2023, 09:34 |
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Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 20181
Post Likes: +25306
Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: Yes, wet runway. Light braking no reverse or beta. Is there some reason to avoid reverse on the Piaggio? Mike C.
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Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 31 Aug 2023, 14:31 |
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Joined: 04/20/15
Posts: 643
Post Likes: +361
Location: KFAT
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Username Protected wrote: I definitely find reverse effective. This was KHWD Rwy 28R. Off at taxiway E…  Attachment: IMG_0896.jpeg You'd be off on taxiway C in the MU2 
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 31 Aug 2023, 14:44 |
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Joined: 12/30/15
Posts: 1787
Post Likes: +1867
Location: Charlotte
Aircraft: Avanti-Citabria
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Yup, Lower Slower Louder Smaller Higher cabin altitude And not to be forgotten... Inability to cruise at FL390 or even FL410 while airliners are complaining of ride from FL290 thru FL370. Has happened many times. All airplanes have compromises. Avanti has very few
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I wanna go phastR.....and slowR
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 31 Aug 2023, 15:20 |
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Joined: 10/12/20
Posts: 311
Post Likes: +157
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Whos parked at Lane in KCMH? Just caught it as I taxied out.
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 31 Aug 2023, 15:46 |
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Joined: 04/20/15
Posts: 643
Post Likes: +361
Location: KFAT
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Username Protected wrote: Yup, Lower Slower Louder Smaller Higher cabin altitude And not to be forgotten... Inability to cruise at FL390 or even FL410 while airliners are complaining of ride from FL290 thru FL370. Has happened many times. All airplanes have compromises. Avanti has very few All correct. ...don't forget cheaper :P
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 31 Aug 2023, 19:04 |
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Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 20181
Post Likes: +25306
Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: Avanti has very few Seems like runway length is one of them. Mike C.
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Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 31 Aug 2023, 20:28 |
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Joined: 09/26/09
Posts: 1470
Post Likes: +978
Company: ElitAire
Location: Columbus, OH - KCMH
Aircraft: Piaggio P180
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Username Protected wrote: Whos parked at Lane in KCMH? Just caught it as I taxied out. That's me Matt. Were you at Lane? I'm sure I'll hear about you - as the line guys like to continue to say "Still haven't seen another once since you started hangaring here..." A few weeks back an MU-2 showed up and they had to pull the tow bar that stays attached to my plane because no one else ever uses it. Glad to hear you are flying. Let me know if you stop in Cbus again...
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 31 Aug 2023, 20:35 |
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Joined: 09/26/09
Posts: 1470
Post Likes: +978
Company: ElitAire
Location: Columbus, OH - KCMH
Aircraft: Piaggio P180
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Username Protected wrote: Avanti has very few Seems like runway length is one of them. Mike C.
Come on MIke. Just let us enjoy our 2000's era Lambo SUV's while you enjoy your 70's era Olds 88 station wagon...we know, we know, it's got a great ecosystem, great runway specs, great everthing. We don't pick on the thing are two that it may not be the best at...  
PS - I still remember when my dad came home with the '79 lime green Caprice Classic Station Wagon, backwards seat, well supported, great specs, gas guzzling 350 4bbl...what a chick magnet that car was.
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 31 Aug 2023, 20:50 |
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Joined: 11/30/12
Posts: 4832
Post Likes: +5451
Location: Santa Fe, NM (KSAF)
Aircraft: B200, 500B
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Username Protected wrote: Avanti has very few
Seems like runway length is one of them.
Mike C.
Even a student can land a 172 shorter than a P180. I have no idea why anyone would choose a P180 over a 172 - you’re giving up access to hundreds of airports and spending at least twice as much!
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 01 Sep 2023, 09:13 |
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Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 20181
Post Likes: +25306
Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: A Piaggio operates out of Palo Alto. And an MU2 out of KSQL. The MU2 is way off the AFM charts, but still does it. I don't know about the P.180 but suspect the same. Quote: I have never seen a c560 go out of Palo Alto:) KPAO is closed to aircraft with max cert weight over 12,500 lbs, and so is KSQL, so you won't see C560V there, at least not legally. And yet, Larry Ellison's CJ4 operates at KSQL (which is way over 12,500 lbs cert weight, more than a C560V), I tried to get the airport to explain how that is and they clammed up. Obviously some funny business there. And yes, there are videos on youtube of this. Outside the weight prohibition, a C560 could operate at KPAO or KSQL with reduced weight. Quote: (Cue posting of citation taking off in 2000ft) C560V max weight and still take off at KPAO is ~13,000 lbs at ISA, no wind. 3000 lbs fuel leaves 800 lbs cabin load at that weight. 3000 lbs fuel is enough to go ~600 nm with ample reserves. That takeoff distance is balanced field length. An engine failure at before V1 means I can stop in runway remaining, after V1 means I can go and clear runway threshold by 35 ft AGL. Without engine failure, I use about 1000 ft less ground run than the book numbers. It is routine to have takeoff runs well under 2000 ft even at pretty high weights. I'm going to guess that if you impose balanced field length requirements on the P.180, it can't operate at KPAO with any practical load. I know the MU2 can't. Mike C.
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 01 Sep 2023, 09:24 |
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Joined: 03/03/11
Posts: 2004
Post Likes: +2048
Aircraft: Piaggio Avanti
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Piaggio def not balanced field at KPAO. I think 3000ft is about the lowest practical balanced field you can operate with it. Need to consult chart. The Ultra I was in was shocking on takeoff. It just shot off the ground. I am amazed either plane can get in or out of PAO. I flew there a lot in my Dakota and every time I turned final I would think how small the runway looks! I like my 9k runway in Denver more 
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 01 Sep 2023, 14:41 |
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Joined: 10/10/14
Posts: 1621
Post Likes: +1315
Location: St George UT
Aircraft: Mooney D 1964
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IIRC In the early days of the MU-2 they advertised short unimproved field capability but I think they disregarded Vmc and blue line to do it back then
The Mu-2 N that I used to fly we took into Echo Bay 0L9 3400' but we were very light although did have to back up to turn around on the narrow runway
Took a Lear 25 into the short runway at KVNY one night (34R- 4,000') but no issues if done properly.
Always wanted to fly an Avanti Thought it was a damn good performing airplane. Tried to get the MU-2 owner interested before he bought the MU-2 but the entry price was more than he wanted to buy in at.
In the long run he would have been better off. But that was many years ago. The MU-2 is now a hangar queen.
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Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread. Posted: 01 Sep 2023, 17:53 |
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Joined: 11/06/20
Posts: 1621
Post Likes: +1689
Location: Tulsa, OK - KRVS
Aircraft: C501SP
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Username Protected wrote: And yet, Larry Ellison's CJ4 operates at KSQL (which is way over 12,500 lbs cert weight, more than a C560V), I tried to get the airport to explain how that is and they clammed up. Obviously some funny business there. And yes, there are videos on youtube of this. Because Larry Ellison is a billionaire who has literally bought the San Mateo County govt. In addition to the above, he also built a fantastically expensive house ($200 million) and while he is supposed to pay property tax on the value of the property, he then lobbied the county tax assessor to lower the value because it has "limited market appeal". https://www.almanacnews.com/news/2008/0 ... says-panelhttps://www.almanacnews.com/news/2008/0 ... ide-estate
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