05 Jan 2026, 10:10 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50  Posted: 29 Jan 2016, 21:14 |
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Joined: 05/23/08
Posts: 6064
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Location: CMB7, Ottawa, Canada
Aircraft: TBM - C185 - T206
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Yes Username Protected wrote: Is CAA in JetFuelX?
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Former Baron 58 owner.
Pistons engines are for tractors.
Marc Bourdon
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50 Posted: 29 Jan 2016, 21:32 |
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Joined: 07/11/11
Posts: 2429
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Location: Woodlands TX
Aircraft: C525 D1K Waco PT17
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Username Protected wrote: Is CAA in JetFuelX? If you have a CAA account, yes it will show on JetFuelX.
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50 Posted: 29 Jan 2016, 21:32 |
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Joined: 05/23/08
Posts: 6064
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Location: CMB7, Ottawa, Canada
Aircraft: TBM - C185 - T206
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No I dont want that. The last thing I want is useless weight and more cost. Nobody as talk about it but what would it cost to recertify the SF50 chute every 5-7 or 10 years? $20k, $30k, $40k or more ? Mike should know that? Username Protected wrote: Speak for yourself, I'm convinced. I wish them success but this jet is going to live in no mans land. A SETP with a chute makes more sense.
_________________
Former Baron 58 owner.
Pistons engines are for tractors.
Marc Bourdon
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50 Posted: 29 Jan 2016, 23:12 |
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Joined: 11/23/12
Posts: 2422
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Company: CSRA Document Solutions
Location: Aiken, SC KAIK
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Username Protected wrote: Several go to 3 day CPPP courses each year (next one in Houston in Oct. for me); have an IPC every 6 months (did mine yesterday), and throw in an ADM weekend course every now and then. Type rating seems compatible with that level of commitment. The training will be more intense, particularly in the sim. Mike C.
Seems like the training/commitment would be the same Cirrus, Citation, Eclipse etc. Not following why this is a big deal. I thought we were discussing why the Cirrus jet was going to succeed or fail. If you have a pool of guys wanting to move up it doesn't seem to matter if its Single/Twin Turboprop, Single/Twin Jet - training and recurring training are going to require a commitment. I doubt many people drop this kind of coin without understanding this.
Peace,
Don
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50 Posted: 29 Jan 2016, 23:22 |
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Joined: 11/20/12
Posts: 713
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Location: Cedar Rapids, IA (CID)
Aircraft: 2008 Cirrus SR22TN
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This thread reminds me of a best selling author that commented about someone criticizing his writing skills. He responded that his goal was not to be the best writer in the world, but to be a best selling author; which he was. Cirrus marketing is on target. Setting all the criticism of the "technical flaws" from this thread aside, I think the SF50 is going to be a very successful product. Username Protected wrote: With all due respect I think you guys are missing the mission envelope. If I'm the guy who buys a new SR22 every 3-4 years or the fractional share companies who roll their fleets every 3 years - I'm looking for something to make my 1 to 3 hour flights shorter and all the time looking cool and burning Jet-A. I don't need to climb to the stratosphere to make a 300-500 mile trip and I sure don't want the hassle of a bigger hangar, multiple engines to service - the SEJ seems like a logical next step and I will get pressurization...
I believe Cirrus is more on the Apple iPhone marketing trajectory - do the hipsters need a new iPhone every year - nope, the old ones are pretty good. Following along the legacy jet theory I could go buy a used iPhone for $ 50.00 and it would work just fine. Many people don't upgrade until forced to, however lots upgrade every time they can logic and cost be damned. These are the folks that will buy these jets...
I believe many people are underestimating Cirrus' brand loyalty and strategy.
Peace,
Don
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Joe Kirby
"Without a plan, everything makes sense."
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50 Posted: 30 Jan 2016, 00:36 |
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Joined: 12/03/14
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Username Protected wrote: Seems like the training/commitment would be the same Cirrus, Citation, Eclipse etc. Not following why this is a big deal. The implication is that a single engine makes the training effort significantly easier. Posters in this thread have postulated that convenience and ease are part of the SF50 attraction and that making it a twin would ruin that. Quote: I doubt many people drop this kind of coin without understanding this. We shall see. I've not always noted a correlation with spending lots of money and knowing what you are doing. Mike C.
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50 Posted: 30 Jan 2016, 00:43 |
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Joined: 12/10/07
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Username Protected wrote: This thread reminds me of a best selling author that commented about someone criticizing his writing skills. He responded that his goal was not to be the best writer in the world, but to be a best selling author; which he was. Cirrus marketing is on target. Setting all the criticism of the "technical flaws" from this thread aside, I think the SF50 is going to be a very successful product.
That's why engineers should never be allowed to make marketing decisions. Engineers will obsess about technical specs and try to sell the product on performance numbers. In the meantime, marketing folks know that product that sells best is one that works "well enough", looks cool, is easy to use, comes with great customer service, and generates lots of buzz on social media. Trust me, I know. I am a recovering engineer myself. 
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50 Posted: 30 Jan 2016, 15:45 |
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Joined: 01/29/08
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Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
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Username Protected wrote: Seems like the training/commitment would be the same Cirrus, Citation, Eclipse etc. Not following why this is a big deal. The implication is that a single engine makes the training effort significantly easier. Posters in this thread have postulated that convenience and ease are part of the SF50 attraction and that making it a twin would ruin that. Quote: I doubt many people drop this kind of coin without understanding this. We shall see. I've not always noted a correlation with spending lots of money and knowing what you are doing. Mike C.
I really believe the debate in this thread centers around class warfare.
Yes yes..... Only guys that can't afford new airplanes make good pilots. RIGHT?
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50 Posted: 30 Jan 2016, 20:22 |
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Username Protected wrote: That's why engineers should never be allowed to make marketing decisions. You mean, like Steve Jobs? I'd rather live in a world where engineers market than one where marketers engineer. Mike C.
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50 Posted: 30 Jan 2016, 20:53 |
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Joined: 01/30/08
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Location: San Diego CA.
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Username Protected wrote: You mean, like Steve Jobs?
I'd rather live in a world where engineers market than one where marketers engineer.
Mike C. Steve Jobs was a lot of things but I don't believe engineer is one of them.
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus SF50 Posted: 30 Jan 2016, 21:41 |
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Joined: 01/29/08
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Username Protected wrote: I'd rather live in the world we actually live in, where risk capital flows to ideas and people with the passion and perseverance to bring them to life, and where the free market decides who's ideas are "right". Any marketer or engineer that claims to be able to say with certainty what the market will or will not accept is probably a tenured college professor. No disrespect to college professors. [youtube]https://youtu.be/RgKoqLLHvFA[/youtube]
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