BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 06 Nov 2018, 12:09

Username Protected wrote:

A reason to get a 400knot jet is to literally never fly piston engine ground speeds again.

Assuming the jet you buy has better range/load capability than the turboprop you already have. To accomplish this from a PC12 requires a Phenom 300 or a PC24 for $10MM. Or $6.8MM to $10MM used. Plus 2X the cost to operate it.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 06 Nov 2018, 12:10

Username Protected wrote:

Some people should really just have turbo props. Some people need jets. whats the issue here?
Keep the 12. Sounds like for you, it walks on water.

Going places alone is no fun.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 06 Nov 2018, 12:29

Username Protected wrote:

Maybe other people focus on what the turbojets in the subject do well versus you wanting to be a hater and focusing on what they don't do. The charts I posted speak for themselves.

That's because I weigh 800lbs..... dumbest joke ever.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 06 Nov 2018, 12:32

Username Protected wrote:

Comparing a PC12 to flying a jet at 400 kts+ at 430 is really not a fair comparison.

Gary

I've flown coast to coast in the Pilatus many times yet I've never sat in it for 8 hours. So I'm not following your math.

I don't want an old S550.

S560 requires 2 pilots.

KPKD? KHND?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 06 Nov 2018, 12:38

Username Protected wrote:

Well obviously there is an issue or else we wouldn’t be trashing baby jets. “Issues”are why we have discussions. You’re used to good range with good payload. And ease of operation. Seems you’re well suited to the 12. Me ? I’m not slogging around at FL27 doing 270kts for 3.5million. I’ll put my best friend and partner in the right seat and cut those Aquisitions costs in half , or more, a lot higher and a lot faster. But no I won’t land in 1000’. And no I won’t be loaded with yappers and fembots.

Good comments Gary.

Good thing you live in a free country and can make that decision when you're ready.

Your old 2 pilot jet though is going to cost you a lot more to operate than you are estimating. I just ran the numbers for a $400K Falcon 20. Eye watering hourly costs and you probably won't be able to give it away when you're done.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 06 Nov 2018, 12:40

I'm not saying the PC12 is my final destination. I'm just pointing out that numbers you guys are posting are only half the story. Why not just tell the whole story instead of deflecting?

The new Phenom 100 EV is only 1150NM plane with full fuel? The M2 is clearly the winner of these 3 and a perfect option if you don't need to bring people with you.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 06 Nov 2018, 12:45

Jason - I know you're worried about serviceability and reliability of P180. But you could buy one for $1.2 mill, keep the PC12 and have the best of both worlds. If it is as hard to service as you say, then you just fly the PC12 around (which you love anyway) when it gets serviced. And if it isn't - then you go at jet speeds with a standup cabin for less money than if you bought any other jet.

Win win. :thumbup:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 06 Nov 2018, 12:47

Username Protected wrote:

Good thing you live in a free country and can make that decision when you're ready.

Your old 2 pilot jet though is going to cost you a lot more to operate than you are estimating. I just ran the numbers for a $400K Falcon 20. Eye watering hourly costs and you probably won't be able to give it away when you're done.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 06 Nov 2018, 12:48

Username Protected wrote:

Jason - I know you're worried about serviceability and reliability of P180. But you could buy one for $1.2 mill, keep the PC12 and have the best of both worlds. If it is as hard to service as you say, then you just fly the PC12 around (which you love anyway) when it gets serviced. And if it isn't - then you go at jet speeds with a standup cabin for less money than if you bought any other jet.

Win win. :thumbup:

It's not a win/win. It's a fantasy and you need to let it go. The P180 is done. It's over.

Besides, it's cheaper owning 1 airplane and using it for everything.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 06 Nov 2018, 12:49

Username Protected wrote:

Lear jets keep popping their head up. And they’re putting the G5000 in the XLS. Nice plane.

$1MM+ a year to operate.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 06 Nov 2018, 12:55

Username Protected wrote:

Comparing a PC12 to flying a jet at 400 kts+ at 430 is really not a fair comparison.

Gary

I've flown coast to coast in the Pilatus many times yet I've never sat in it for 8 hours. So I'm not following your math.

I don't want an old S550.

S560 requires 2 pilots.

KPKD? KHND?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 06 Nov 2018, 12:55

Username Protected wrote:

[
It's not a win/win. It's a fantasy and you need to let it go. The P180 is done. It's over.

Besides, it's cheaper owning 1 airplane and using it for everything.

It ain't over until I get one.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 06 Nov 2018, 12:57

Username Protected wrote:

I doubt anybody can tell how old a plane is sitting in the back in a new interior. Most people think it's fairly new. I have an 550 and a S550 the S550 is newer by 8 years and the 550 has a new interior and virtually no one has any idea what the age of the planes are and nor do they care.

Use Foreflight Performance or Fltplan for flight estimates work good for me.

The PC12 can fly coast to coast now in less than 8 hrs going west?

Gary

I dont sit in the back..... I'm the pilot. The folks in the back don't pay the bills. I don't want a cockpit that looks like Apollo 11.

My longest flight West Bound is Atlanta to Palm Springs, CA non stop. 6 hours. Of course it's all about headwinds. But headwinds work both ways too. My fastest GS is 409 knots.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 06 Nov 2018, 12:58

Username Protected wrote:

It ain't over until I get one.

I wish everyone would get one. Then the service would be on par. It would be the perfect plane IF everything was working.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 06 Nov 2018, 12:59

I flew a bunch of guys from Norcal to Cabo in the PC12 (1100 miles)... nearly five hours en route and they all got out and said never again the Pilatus for that route. Taking a jet instead would have cost them a little bit more, but not much. Most people who are flying private and not flying themselves don't want to sit for 5 hrs. Kills the whole point.

Phenom 100E , Cessna M2 or Hondajet?